2004

There were 66 posts published in 2004 (this is page 3 of 7).

Broken Glass

A couple of weeks ago young Emma smashed a pane of glass in the door to our back porch. I felt miserably qualified to make the repair, so I put it off as long as I could. (Which was until Kris couldn’t take it any more and we had a big fight about it. Aren’t I bad?)

On Sunday, I gathered my tools and set to work.

My first goal was to strip the paint from the wood around the broken glass so that I could determine how to remove the various bits of moulding. I believe the can of paint stripper was specifically designed for maximum spillage. As I stood at the kitchen counter, attempting to pour from the can into an old mug, none of the liquid found its way into the designated container. It all dripped onto the countertop. The painted countertop.

“Shit,” I said. I grabbed some paper towels and wiped up the mess. Fortunately, I acted quickly enough that no paint was stripped; there’s just a slight discoloration, one that’s not too apparent because these counters are old.

I read the side of the can: Do not swallow. Do not allow to come in contact with eyes. This substance is poisonous. There is no way to counteract the poison, etc. etc.

“Shit,” I said. I slathered the countertop with soap and water and crossed my fingers. (If you hear we’ve died from poisoning, you’ll know why.)

I decided the kitchen wasn’t the best place to be pouring paint stripper, so I headed to the utility room steps. (I might have gone to the shop but it was raining and I didn’t have shoes on and, well, I don’t really have a good excuse for not going to the shop, I guess.) This time I poured more freely. And still none — or very little — of the paint stripper made it into the designated container. It splashed all over my hand, splashed onto the steps.

“Shit,” I said. I held up the can again, re-read the warnings. This time I noticed: Do not allow to come in contact with skin. If contact occurs seek medical attention immediately.

“Shit,” I said. You all know how paranoid I am about my health. I started panicking, of course, sure I was going to die soon. (Kris once told me the heartbreaking true story of a woman working in a lab who had inadvertently come into contact with some substance (a heavy metal?) despite extraordinary precautions. The moment she came into contact with this substance, she knew she was doomed. She had only days (hours?) to live. After spilling the paint stripper on my hand, I felt I was this woman.) I scrambled around, washing my hands repeatedly, mopping up the spill, cursing.

When Kris returned from grocery shopping, I told her about my predicament, and asked her if I should be worried, if I should seek medical attention immediately. She glared at me (we were still angry at each other — this was the middle of our fight). “No,” she said. “You’ll be fine.” But the way she said it didn’t inspire comfort. In fact, I got the distinct impression that she might be lying to me. Never make a chemist mad!

Still, I returned to the task at hand. Eventually I found an angle that spilled less paint stripper than before (though it still spilled prodigious quantities). I filled my container and went to work.

I had set a piece of corrugated cardboard on the floor at my work area, and had gathered together a hammer, a chisel, and a flat paint spreader thingie. I brushed on a layer of the paint stripper. Then, slowly, carefully, I hammered out the broken glass. I was able to pull many of the pieces out by hand. (Most of the glass ended up on the back porch, to be shop-vacced later, but some of it fell inward — thus the corrugated pad.)

After removing the glass, I scraped away most of the paint on the moulding below the window. Unfortunately, I couldn’t see any obvious place where the moulding connected to the frame. I began to fear it was all of a piece.

“Shit,” I said, not knowing what to do next. Eventually, I decided simply to dash ahead, trusting to blind faith that this really was a piece of quarter-round nailed to the frame. And so I chiseled and pried, but s-l-o-w-l-y. Eventually, a piece of wood began to loosen, or so it seemed. I pried more and the wood popped free! I pried with increased vigor and then the piece shredded in two before my very eyes.

“Shit,” I said, as the pieces fell to the ground. I picked them up to examine them. Even after prying them loose, I couldn’t find any sign of a seam. It was as if the entire frame, even the decorative parts, was a single piece, and I had just hacked off an edge.

I’m getting better at home improvement, but still I find myself intimidated by tasks I’ve never before attempted. When I fixed the faucet in the bathroom upstairs, I initially felt a great deal of trepidation. Eventually I figured out what I was doing, yes, and I did a fine job making the repair, but I started warily, unsure of myself. Here I had not yet reached the feeling that I knew what I was doing.

“Shit,” I said. I slumped to the floor, frustrated.

Kris came in, still angry.

“Why don’t you just call Jeremy?” she asked. When Emma broke the window, Jeremy had immediately offered to help me fix it. I wanted to try it myself, though, and so had declined his aid.

“Shit,” I said, but I went to the phone and called Jeremy.

Tonight, Jeremy and I will tackle the window. This kind of project requires sustenance, of course, so I’ve pulled some steaks out of the freezer (thanks, Ron!), and have set aside a bottle of wine. If we get very frustrated, the whiskey’s not far away — just on the shelf there by the back porch — and the tobacco supply is also at hand.

Kris is worried that we’ll be too busy debauching to get any work done.

As for our marital squabble: eventually we talked things out, as we always do. Neither of us is completely satisfied, which to me indicates we’ve reached a proper compromise (the definition of compromise requiring that neither party feel he or she has “won”). In the evening, we watched West Side Story together while I ironed clothes and Kris looked for Christmas cookie recipes.

Comments

On 19 October 2004 (09:47 AM),
Johnny said:

If it’s any consolation, the warnings on the paint stripper are designed for people who intend on a) drinking the stuff on the theory that raw alcohol smells like paint thinner and it’s cool stuff so why not drink this too, or b)bathing in the stuff and leaving it on their skin for an extended period of time. Any time I’ve stripped paint using that goopy paint remover I’ve gotten it on my skin in select places, wiped it off, washed it off and received nothing but a slight burn for my carelessness. Apparently my overall health hasn’t suffered any at ARRRRGHHHH

On 19 October 2004 (10:05 AM),
Dana said:

I decided the kitchen wasn’t the best place to be pouring paint stripper, …

Allow me, at this juncture, to offer an interjection: DUH!

When I was at LLNL there was an incident involving broken glassware and a glove-box. The upshot — someone stabbed themselves through the glove with a broken pipette contaminated with Uranium or Plutonium (I don’t recall which — probably Uranium).

Yeah. Not a nice way to go.

On 19 October 2004 (12:29 PM),
Anthony said:

Some people. As if you really expect whiskey to improve your problem-solving abilities.

Those steaks, now� if I was closer, you could definitely count on my help with that glass.

On 19 October 2004 (01:19 PM),
pam said:

true story my ass – nobody is poisoned from spilling things on their hands. now you can corrode off all your skin and then die from the infection that ensues, but that’s another matter entirely.

On 19 October 2004 (02:02 PM),
Kris said:

Hey, Pam– I don’t think Jd’s in danger, but it can happen. Please read below.

The News York Times
HANOVER, N.H., June 10, 1997 – A Dartmouth College chemistry professor has died from exposure to a rare form of mercury, first synthesized more than 130 years ago.

Karen E. Wetterhahn, 48, who also had served as an associate dean and a dean at the college, died on Sunday, about 10 months after accidentally spilling a few drops of dimethylmercury on her disposable latex gloves while performing a laboratory experiment. The substance, which has no practical application, is used in research on heavy metals.

Prof. John S. Winn, chairmen of the college’s chemistry department, said Professor Wetterhahn was a leader in the study of how heavy metals can initiate cancer at the molecular level. Dimethylmercury is so rare that it is only in use in perhaps 100 laboratories worldwide at any given time, he said.

Through a search of medical literature, the college determined that exposure to the substance killed two laboratory assistants in 1865, shortly after it was first synthesized, and a 28-year-old chemist in 1971.

“Karen Wetterhahn’s death is a tragedy for her family and for the Dartmouth community,” said Dartmouth’s president, James O. Freedman

After years of study chromium metal toxicity, Professor Wetterhahn had turned to the study of mercury in a sabbatical at Harvard University in September 1995, Professor Winn said. In the experiment at Dartmouth last August, she had used dimethylmercury to set up a standard against which to measure other mercury involved in her research.

The drops apparently spilled onto her gloves, passed quickly through the latex and were absorbed through her skin. After her illness was diagnosed in late January, the college had the latex gloves independently tested, and it was determined that the mercury could pass through in 15 seconds or much less.

Other types of gloves offer more protection, but she probably used latex to increase dexterity during the delicate procedure, he said.

In a letter to Chemical and Engineering News about the accident, Professor Winn and the other college officials recommended that heavier gloves be used during experiments, and that “medical surveillance measuring mercury concentrations in whole blood or urine” should be considered during extended use of these compounds.

Professor Wetterhahn’s symptoms, which initially included difficulty with balance, speach, vision and hearing, progressed rapidly and she was in a coma from late February until her death. Although treatments were administered to eliminate the mercury in her system, they began too late to prevent irreversible damage to the nervous syster, Professor Winn said.

On 19 October 2004 (02:05 PM),
Anthony said:

nobody is poisoned from spilling things on their hands.

That is a very broad statement. I might make so bold as to say that JD is highly unlikely to be seriously poisoned by pouring paint stripper on his hands, but skin is porous� well guarded but porous. I think it is fairly common knowledge that your skin can absorb many kinds of harmless chemicals, and poisons are no different.

I’m not saying you’re in any danger, JD. Just be sure your living will is up to date. ;)

On 19 October 2004 (02:37 PM),
Joel said:

Johnny said: “Apparently my overall health hasn’t suffered any at ARRRRGHHHH”
Apparently Johnny dictates his comments?

On 20 October 2004 (07:36 AM),
Dave said:

Isn’t there a St. Aaaaarrrrrrggghhh’s in Cornwall?

On 20 October 2004 (08:10 AM),
Dana said:

I think you mean St. Iiiiives.

On 20 October 2004 (08:11 AM),
Dana said:

I think you mean St. Iiiiives.

On 20 October 2004 (08:12 AM),
J.D. said:

Shhh. Be quiet. I’m composing a poem about the skunk under the trailer house. You’re distracting me.

On 20 October 2004 (08:35 AM),
Dana said:

My cousin was bit by a skunk.

(sorry about the double post earlier)

On 20 October 2004 (08:39 AM),
kool-azz rider said:

A poem? Sweet dude! Im teh best when it comes to riting poetry. Let me know if’n you want my help there, G. I can lay down some mad rimes about skunks.

On 20 October 2004 (10:08 AM),
pam said:

ok – i concede to kris. i searched the med lit and could find seven cases of death from contact exposure – all of them involved some form of mercury and a few may have had inhalational exposure as well. so what i should say is that no one is fatally poisoned from spilling non-mercury compounds on their hands!

interestingly enough, there are a lot more cases of husbands being poisoned by there wives (i’ve even seen a case – arsenic, caught before fatal) and in many cases the wife works in the field of science or medicine…so how bad was that fight??

On 20 October 2004 (11:39 AM),
Kris said:

I think that just goes to show you that both Mac & Jd should be on their best behavior!

On 21 October 2004 (10:26 AM),
Pam said:

Joel may have to start watching his behavior as well.

And I don’t think Mac noticed anything odd about dinner last night, did you, honey? ;)

The Blood of a Squirrel

Greetings it is I Simon. Mom and Dad are gone to Andrew and Courtney’s to celebrate the impending birth of their new kitten. If you ask me, Mom and Dad’s friends have too many kittens; I would be happy to suggest a surgical procedure to prevent so many damn kittens.

It is the Week End, and I like that. The Week End means Mom and Dad will be home all day and they will feed us lots because they get tired of listening to Sister Toto whine. (When they are gone they cannot hear Sister whine — only Brother Nemo and I can — so they cannot feed her. Nemo and I have plans to eliminate this problem, but so far the opportunity has not presented itself. Toto does not go near the road often enough.)

On Week Ends, Mom lets us outside early in the morning. We play outside all day and we lounge in the sun and we watch the birds and the bugs and the squirrels and the cars and the dogs and the cats and we drink from the birdbaths and we dig in the garden and we loaf on the porch and we even sometimes help Mom and Dad in the yard.

Today I helped Dad plant the Apple Tree. And after he had finished, I helped him erect the Grape Trellis. As we were working, that goddamned Flash came round. Flash is a neighborhood cat — he has no Mom and Dad, he is an orphan — and he has not had a certain surgical procedure. Worse, he is big and orange and ugly. I do not like that Flash.

While Dad dug in the dirt, Flash and I had a disagreement. We always have disagreements. We yowl and growl and whine at each other. I lower my head and he raises his. One time, Flash stood on his hind legs and swayed back and forth. He looked like an idiot. Was that supposed to be scary? All the time when we argue, we end up butting heads. We get closer and closer, yowling louder and louder, until we are standing forehead to forehead, rubbing whiskers. Dad thinks we look funny, but he does not know that this is a battle of Minds. As much as I hate him, I must admit Flash is strong. He is a worthy opponent. He often wins these battles, and I hate him for it.

Later, Aunt Rhonda stopped by to talk with Mom and Dad in the garden. They chatted under the walnut tree while I sat at the end of the walk, watching them. While they chatted, Walnut, in a brazen move, came down the tree, with a nut in his mouth, and watched. He skittered down the tree to the ground. I was keenly interested, but I made no move. I watched Walnut. I observed.

“Simon,” said Dad. “Look! Walnut’s on the ground.” But I made no reply. Does the man think that I am an idiot? Walnut darted down the sidewalk in little bursts. I stood and eased my way toward him, testing his reflexes. His reflexes were quite good, actually, and he immediately climbed the filbert and then leaped across to the branches of his home tree.

I walked over and rubbed against Mom’s legs. I gave Dad a look to tell him that he is an idiot, because he is.

I hid in the bushes. Mom and Dad continued working in the yard. Dad went into the house to help the Heater Man carry the old heater out to the garage.

Just then, I noticed that Walnut had crossed the lawn to visit his little squirrel buddy, Cedar. They were clinging to the base of the cedar tree, chattering. Nemo crept up beside me.

“Do you see the squirrels?” he asked. “I’ve been trying to catch that damned Walnut for weeks. Remember how I got stuck in his tree once? And remember how I climbed the tree in the neighbor’s yard and got stuck there? Walnut escaped me by racing across the power line back to his tree. Stupid squirrel. And remember how one night I got stuck on the roof of the garage? I was chasing Walnut and Acorn then.”

Nemo’s a good kid, but he’s a little inept. All energy and no brains. “Watch,” I told him, and I began to slink across the lawn. Walnut and Cedar were chattering to each other still, still clinging to the base of the Cedar.

Dad and the Heater Man came out of the house and they dropped the old Heater on the steps, creating a tremendous racket. It startled me. It startled the squirrels. I thought my game was up, but the squirrels looked past me, at Dad and the Heater Man. They didn’t even see me!

And then I took the risk. I charged those little rodents and I flew into the air and I grabbed Walnut with my claws and I sunk my teeth into his chest I squeezed and he flailed and he flailed and he squeaked and Cedar came lower on the tree and he scolded me and Nemo flew across the lawn to my side saying “Let me taste! Let me taste!” and Dad began to yell “Simon! Simon! Simon!” and in my mouth was the blood of a squirrel and it was delicious and then the Heater Man came roaring across the lawn yelling “Simon! Simon!” and Nemo said “I want to taste the blood of a squirrel” and enough is enough so I raced across the yard to my spot beneath the holly and while Mom and Dad and the Heater Man ran around yelling “Simon! Simon!” and Walnut flailed and squeaked — weaker now, much weaker — I sat beneath the tree with the blood of a squirrel on my tongue.

Nemo came and sat with me. His eyes blazed with envy. “I want to taste the blood of a squirrel,” he said, but I pretended I did not hear. I held Walnut tight in my jaws, and when I was sure he was dead, I dropped him and walked into the house.

Stupid Mom and Dad. Now they’re outside looking for the squirrel and why? There are more here: Cedar and Acorn and Locust and Holly and all the others. And there are more in the neighbor’s yards. And why do they care if I have a squirrel now and then? And stupid Nemo. For three months he cannot catch a squirrel, but I catch one on my very first try.

All in all a very good day. Mom and Dad have shut me upstairs now while they go celebrate the Cronk Kitten, but I do not mind. I’ve been studying this weblog thing for months (and I even read Abbie the Cat when Dad lets me), and Toto showed me how she wrote here twice — though Lord! how abysmal is her spelling and grammar — so the only real trouble has been these miserable paws. How I long for opposable thumbs!

Now if only I could catch Flash by the abdomen and squeeze. I would like to taste his blood someday.

(I dedicate this entry to Nine Miron.)

Comments

On 02 October 2004 (07:54 PM),
Ruby said:

I want to munch on an SQ too! I’m fast as lightening. I’ve been told others like me can run as fast as 35 miles per hour. Alas, I have not caught an SQ. My people are very strict about chasing SQs. They are no fun. Someday . . .Tabor SQs beware.

On 03 October 2004 (09:32 AM),
nemo said:

ha ha it is i nemo boy is simon stupid because he came out from the bushes and mom and dad caught him and shut him upstairs and they thought i was there but ha ha ha they were wrong i was in the bushes and i saw where simon hid the squirrel and when they had gone to uncle andrew’s house i knew where to find walnut and find him i did i took him out on the lawn and ha ha simon ha ha it was i who got the blood of a squirrel it was i who got the blood of a squirrel while you were locked upstairs with stupid hissy sister and it was i who chewed off his head and it was i who tore off his tail and it was i who munched his guts ha ha ha it was i it was i it was i boy you are so stupid simon i hope you feel dumb because that is how i catch a squirrel now i let you do all the work and i eat it ha ha ha

On 03 October 2004 (03:47 PM),
J.D. said:

Rosings Park is oddly silent today. There is no chatter of squirrels. It’s as if they’ve all agreed to observe a day of mourning for their most vocal member, now deceased.

As I was mowing today, I found Walnut’s remains. His head was missing, but his fur, and claws, and tail were stretched out on the lawn (where now they are dessicating). Some cat — Nemo, if he is to be believed — had feasted on Walnuts’ better parts.

Kris and I are sad. It was fun to wake up to Walnut’s squawking. We’re hoping that a new squirrel will move in and take over his roost.

On 03 October 2004 (04:36 PM),
Tiffany said:

Is this the same squirrel that threw nuts at you as you walked under the tree?

On 04 October 2004 (08:51 AM),
Tabby said:

I must admit my jealousy as I am old and suffer from arthritis. Mostly, I just watch the stupid squirrels out the window while lying on the heating pad on the bed. If I venture outside to watch them, they mock me endlessly knowing that I am unable to pursue them. Bastards.

On 04 October 2004 (09:02 AM),
Nine said:

I have been taken to a very cold place.

On 04 October 2004 (09:03 AM),
Skittle said:

What are squirrels?

On 04 October 2004 (09:03 AM),
Sampson said:

Never mind Skittle, she’s my stupid sister. She’s really cute but kind of kookie.

On 04 October 2004 (10:33 AM),
Rex said:

Dogs eat little kitties for lunch. Yum yum. Let them out in the yard. Yes, let them play. Woof woof.

On 04 October 2004 (11:33 AM),
Skittle said:

Yeah, well Sampson is just a nerdy affection hogger with an oversized head.
Who cares if he can fetch anyhow?
Can you say doot do do do doot do do?
(music to the Sampson dance)
I’m not kookie, I’m just a little ADD…
I’m going back to my nap now…

I Dreamed Once More of Berma

On the cruise, I was able to take a bite out of Within a Budding Grove, the second of Marcel Proust’s seven-volume novel, Remembrance of Things Past. Those of you who remember my obsession last year with the first volume, Swann’s Way, are by turns cheering and groaning, aware of the lengthy meditations which are sure to follow over the course of the next month as I complete this book.

You may think I jest when I profess adoration for Proust; and, in truth, I do make light of my affection simply because, to many of you, it seems so absurd. But I really do have a fondness for his work, the marvelously complex sentences, the haunting introspection, the profound observations of daily life.

Reading Proust is like running a marathon: it’s a mixture of pleasure and pain. Yes, even for ardent devotees such as myself, Proust’s lengthy sentences and pages-long paragraphs can be, at times, almost impenetrable. Frequently I must pause and reread, then re-reread, and even re-re-reread passages in order to decipher them.

However, as with running a marathon, reading Proust offers fantastic rewards, can provide a rush unavailable in reading smaller, easier works.

My favorite bit from the first hundred pages is as follows:

Young Marcel has grown older, is now a young man (he’s between fourteen and seventeen years old — I can’t tell precisely). He longs to attend the theater, in particular to see a performance by the legendary Berma. At the suggestion of the diplomat Norpois, Marcel’s father agrees, reluctantly, that Marcel may accompany his grandmother to see Berma in a perfromance of Phèdre, one of her most famous roles.

In preparation, Marcel reads Phèdre repeatedly, each time attempting to interpret the role in a different way, impart new nuances and inflections in his mind. He knows that his attempts are juvenile, cannot possibly hope to match the manner in which the incomparable Berma will read the lines on stage.

As the date of the theater trip approaches, Marcel’s excitement turns to apprehension. He begins to fear that there’s no way Berma could possibly meet his expectations. Though he longs to forego the trip, he cannot because it’s something he’s requested for many years.

The theater isn’t what Marcel expected: all the actors move together and interact on one stage instead of reading their lines from separate positions. (Strange naiveté, no? But it’s in keeping with the character.) He’s mesmerized by the supporting actors.

Then Berma takes the stage in the second act. Marcel is disappointed. This is greatness? he wonders. It seems to him that Berma is merely going through the motions. There’s no subtlety to her performance. She brings nothing to the part that his imagination had not already surpassed. Can this be the great actress of whom he has read so much?

After the performance, Marcel overanalyzes the situation (like somebody else you all know). He decides that while he enjoyed the production, it did not meet his expectations, and how could it? Then he hears others, including the ambassador Norpois (whose opinion Marcel holds in high esteem) praise Berma, and Marcel’s own opinion of her performance improves. He reads glowing reviews of the production, and now even his memory of it begins to glow a little.

I’ve related all that (a summary of the first seventy pages, really) just to set up this lengthy excerpt, a passage with which I identify. (I’ve edited this to make it more readable for my audience.):

After M. de Norpois had gone my father cast an eye over the evening paper; I dreamed once more of Berma. The pleasure which I had found in listening to her required to be made complete, all the more because it had fallen far short of what I had promised myself; and so it at once assimilated everything that was capable of giving it nourishment, those merits, for instance, which M. de Norpois had admitted that Berma possessed, and which my mind had absorbed at one draught, like a dry lawn when water is poured on it. Then my father handed me the newspaper, pointing out a paragraph which ran more or less as follows: —

“The performance of Phèdre, given this afternoon before an enthusiastic audience, which included the foremost representatives of society and the arts, as well as the principal critics, was for Mme. Berma, who played the heroine, the occasion of a triumph as brilliant as any that she has known in the course of her phenomenal career. We shall discuss more fully in a later issue this performance, which is indeed and event in the history of the stage; for the present we need only add that the best qualified judges are unanimous in the pronouncement that such an interpretation sheds an entirely new light on the part of Phèdre, which is one of the finest and most studied of Racine’s creations, and that it constitutes the purest and most exalted manifestation of dramatic art which it has been the privilege of our generation to witness.”

Immediately my mind had conceived this new idea of “the purest and most exalted manifestation of dramatic art”, it, the idea, sped to join the imperfect pleasure which I had felt in the theatre, added to it a little of what was lacking, and their combination formed something so exalting that I cried out within myself: “What a great artist!”

It may doubtless be argued that I was not absolutely sincere. But let us bear in mind, rather, the numberless writers who, dissatisfied with the page which they have just written, if they read some eulogy of the genius of Chateaubriand, or evoke the spirit of some great artist whose equal they aspire to be, by humming to themselves, for instance, a phrase of Beethoven, the melancholy of which they compare with what they have been trying to express in prose, are so filled with that idea of genius that they add it to their own productions, when they think of them once again, see them no longer in the light in which at first they appeared, and, hazarding an act of faith in the value of their work, say to themselves: “After all!” without taking into account that, into the total which determines their ultimate satisfaction, they have introduced the memory of marvelous pages of Chaeaubriand which they assimilate into their own, but of which, in cold fact, they are not the authors; let us bear in mind the numberless men who believe in the love of a mistress on evidence only of her betrayals; all those, too, who are sustained by the alternative hopes, either of an incomprehensible survival of death, when they think, inconsolable husbands, of the wives whom they have lost but have not ceased to love, or artists, of the posthumous glory which they may thus enjoy; or else the hope of complete extinction which comforts them when their thoughts turn to the misdeeds that otherwise they must expiate after death; let us bear in mind also the travelers who come home enraptured by the general beauty of a tour of which, from day to day, they have felt nothing but the tedious incidents; and let us then declare whether, in the communal life that is led by our ideas in the enclosure of our minds, there is a single one of those that make us most happy which has not first sought, a very parasite, and won from an alien but neighboring idea the greater part of the strength that it originally lacked.

Wonderful stuff, the very insightful and meditative qualities which make Proust a marathon worth running.

But it gets better.

A propos of nothing — or nearly so — Proust, in the form of his protagonist, Marcel, launches into the following meditation. (Again, edited for mass consumption.):

My mother appeared none too well pleased that my father no longer thought of “the career” for myself. I fancy that, anxious before all things that a definite rule of life should discipline the eccentricity of my nervous system, what she regretted was not so much seeing me abandon diplomacy as the prospect of my devoting myself to literature.

But “Let him alone!” my father protested; “the main thing is that a man should find pleasure in his work. He is no longer a child. He knows pretty well now what he likes, it is not at all probable that he will change, and he is quite capable of deciding for himself what will make him happy in life.”

That evening, as I waited for the time to arrive when, thanks to the freedom of choice which they allowed me, I should or should not begin to be happy in life, my father’s words caused me great uneasiness. At all times his unexpected kindnesses had, when they were manifested, prompted in me so keen a desire to kiss, above where his beard began, his glowing cheeks, that if I did not yield to that desire, it was simply because I was afraid of annoying him.

And on that day, as an author becomes alarmed when he sees the fruits of his own meditation, which do not appear to him to be of great value since he does not separate them from himself, oblige a publisher to choose a kind of paper, to employ a fount of type finer, perhaps, than they deserve, I asked myself whether my desire to write was of sufficient importance to justify my father in dispensing so much generosity. But apart from that, when he spoke of my inclinations as no longer liable to change, he awakened in me two terrible suspicions.

The first was that (at a time when, every day, I regarded myself as standing upon the threshold of a life which was still intact and would not enter upon its course until the following morning) my existence was already begun, and that, furthermore, what was yet to follow would not differ to any extent from what had already elapsed.

The second suspicion, which was nothing more, really, than a variant of the first, was that I was not situated somewhere outside the realm of Time, but was subject to its laws, just like the people in novels who, for that reason, used to plunge me in such depression when I read of their lives, down at Combray, in the fastness of my wicker sentry-box. In theory one is aware that the earth revolves, but in practice one does not perceive it, the ground upon which one treads seems not to move, and one can live undisturbed.

So it is with Time in one’s life. And to make its flight perceptible novelists are obliged, by wildly accelerating the beat of the pendulum, to transport the reader in a couple of minutes over ten, or twenty, or even thirty years. At the top of one page we have left a lover full of hope; at the foot of the next we meet him again, a bowed old man of eighty, painfully dragging himself about the courtyard of an almshouse, scarcely replying to what is said to him, oblivious of the past.

In saying of me, “He is no longer a child,” “His tastes will not change now”, and so forth, my father had suddenly made me apparent to myself in my position in Time, and caused me the same kind of depression as if I had been, not yet the enfeebled old pensioner, but one of those heroes of whom the author, in a tone of indifference which is particularly galling, says to us at the end of a book: “He very seldom comes up now from the country. He has finally decided to end his days there.”

Sublime!

How horrible are those moments in which we realize that we are not exempted from the laws of nature, from the passages of time, those moments in which we find ourselves painfully aware of our own mortality. I pass most of my life blissfully unaware of my impending doom; there are moments, though, when my human nature is brought into focus, and I am made aware of the finite time before me.

Comments

On 09 September 2004 (08:02 AM),
Dave said:

Note that at no time does Marcel get himself thrown out of this performance, unlike our current protagonist.

On 09 September 2004 (09:58 AM),
Dana said:

Um. Where’s Ant-man? Someone promised Ant-man…

On 09 September 2004 (10:44 AM),
Pam said:

Let me know if you need any help achieving the pain, pleasure and rush of marathon running, too. :)

On 09 September 2004 (11:31 AM),
Johnny said:

Henry Pym, the Ant-Man, shrugged his shoulders as Proust turned to contemplate the bizarrely attired superhero, who for the occassion had dressed in his best black and red spandex and had polished his chrome plated helmet. Although rarely at a loss for words, Proust continued to ponder the deeper meaning of the not so subtle interchange between the colors, wondering if the colours were the product of some lengthy mental process that had meandered over the metaphysical landscape or rather the explosive genesis of a tortured soul seeking escape. The gigantic column of ants behind Ant-Man continued to move forward in near silence, marked only by the tiny footfalls of a million ants gathered together as a force of nature, calmly marking each segment of their existence in the metered way that was common to all ants.

Suddenly, Ant-Man lunged forward and, using the trigger on his belt, released the amazing gas which triggered his shrinking. As he travelled across the void between them, Ant-Man shrank to only an inch in height, but retained his full 5’8″ mass, enabling him to deliver an elephantine punch. Proust began to speak, and words in long, complex sentences filled the air between them. Time began to slow as Ant-Man soared across the gap.

In a roaring voice (for a one inch figure), Ant-Man said, “I am brevity, hear me roar.” But the words of Proust were proving too much for him as his arms, legs, eyes and brain felt more and more leaden, burdened by the growing mass of turgid prose that Ant-Man had to wade through to reach the essence of Proust.

Finally, overcome by the sheer volume of consonants, vowels, syllables, dependent clauses and paragraphs, Ant-Man fell, inches short of his goal. The ants, however, comprehending neither French or English and reacting solely to Ant-Man’s last mental command to defeat Proust, swarmed over Proust, carved him into little ant-sized bits and carried him off, leaving only red smears of blood where once had stood a mountain of prose.

On 09 September 2004 (01:18 PM),
Jethro said:

Three cheers for Ant-Man! Hip-Hip-Hurray! Hip-Hip-Hurray! Hip-Hip-Hurray!

Thanks for making the world a better place, Ant-Man!

Books on Tape

I’ve never been much of a listener-to-books, but I could become one.

In college, after I decided it was okay to like Stephen King, I listened to several of his books on tape. My first exposure to “Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption” was through an audio book. I’ve also listened to some of Garrison Keillor’s books on tape, though this seems more natural.; Keillor’s tales are meant to be heard.

More recently, last summer I listened to two of Patrick O’Brian’s early novels on CD. I enjoyed them immensely. Listening to a book forces me to absorb the material at a slow and measured pace. It forces me to pay attention to detail.

At present, I am reading Dracula on CD, in my car, during my drives to and from work. It’s fun! (It’s a fine thing that I’m listening during the day, too; were I to listen before bed, I might have trouble falling asleep.) Count Dracula reminds me, at least in this performance, of nobody so much as Mr. Joel Miron. So, in a way, every time I hear Dracula torment poor Jonathan Harker, I imagine that it is the evil Joel tormenting me.

Heh.

Of late, using the public library system more and more because, with the new house, I simply cannot afford further profligate expenditures on luxury items.

Unfortunately, the Clackamas County Library’s books on CD — and their graphic novels — are poorly organized. Each branch has its own method of organization. Some group all books on CD together. Others have them interspersed with the books on tape. Some branches have ten books on CD. Some have hundreds. And there’s no way to make the library’s web site, “Show me all books on CD.” (Or, “Show me all graphic novels.”) This frustrates me.

Somehow, though, I’ll find good audiobooks.

The Lake Oswego branch has all of Shakespeare’s plays on CD. And the county-wide library system has many of the Aubrey-Maturin novels.

Yes, I’ll find plenty to read. Or to hear.

Comments

On 08 September 2004 (07:39 AM),
mac said:

At present, I am reading Dracula on CD Now that’s funny!

On 08 September 2004 (07:47 AM),
Dana said:

“100111101001 11010011 00111 101011100011 0001001…”

Dang. Lost my place. I’ll have to start again…

On 08 September 2004 (07:56 AM),
Jeff said:

So, if you listen to a book on tape or CD, it is still considered reading it? Cool. I’ve read Angela’s Ashes – a few years ago when JD was reading it on tape here at work. Woo-hoo!

That’s one whole non-reference type book since college. Book group, here I come! Well, maybe not…

On 08 September 2004 (08:19 AM),
J.D. said:

So, this is a fine question, one that I’m sure has been argued many times before in other places:

Is listening to a book on tape the equivalent of reading a book?

At one time, I would have argued, “No, they are not the same.” Now I would take the opposite stance.

Having read books on tape, I know that I absorb more, comprehend more, am more aware of the richness of the work when I listen to a book than when I physically read it.

This does not mean that I’m going to stop the physical act of reading; I enjoy that too much to ever give it up. However, I am open to listening to books as a supplement to my normal reading regimen (which, at present, consists solely of comic books, anyhow).

One problem, as Mac and Dana have noted, is semantics. If I listen to a book on tape, can I really be said to have “read” it? To be reading it? I don’t know. But for now, I say yes. Unless somebody has a better verb, I’ll stick with “reading”.

Now, if only there were such a thing as “comic books on tape”… :)

On 08 September 2004 (08:30 AM),
Dana said:

Um, dude.

The verb you are looking for is LISTENING. You used it yourself in a couple sentences there.

You are listening to a reading of the book. You are not reading the book yourself. The physical act of reading is what we call reading, whereas the physical act of listening is what we call listening.

On 08 September 2004 (08:40 AM),
J.D. said:

ARGH!

I have such a tough time with this distinction because, for me, the important thing is the act of consuming the book. To me, when a book is consumed, it is read, whether that consumption occurs via the eye or the ear.

So, Dana, if you listened to an unabridged Asimov book on tape, and I asked you, “Have you read such-and-such a book?” how would you answer? Would you say, “Yes, I’ve read that book,” or would you say, “No, I’ve not read it, but I’ve listened to it.” Is this an important distinction?

On 08 September 2004 (09:09 AM),
Dana said:

Would you say, “Yes, I’ve read that book,” or would you say, “No, I’ve not read it, but I’ve listened to it.” Is this an important distinction?

I would say, “No, I’ve not read it, but I’ve listened to it.”

Do you say, “I’ve read that play,” or “I’ve seen that play?” It depends on which thing you did.

When you sit down and read a kid a book, would you say the kid has read the book? Or would you say you have read the book to the kid, and the kid has listened to the reading?

I think it is an important distinction. And so do you, really, judging by the fact that you seem to be more aware of the contents of the book when you hear it read, at least in part because of the forced pacing.

Maybe it’s just me. But I think your ‘consuming == reading’ distinction is a unique JD-ism that’s not bourne out in the populace as a whole. I could be wrong.

On 08 September 2004 (09:11 AM),
Denise said:

Hmmm…although I agree that you have consumed the book if you have listened to it…I don’t think you can actually say you have read it. You have listened to it, but you yourself have not read it.

BUT – either way – you have experienced it and I would say, if asked the question above, “Yes, I have read that book.”

Oh – this one is a toughie, no?

On 08 September 2004 (09:54 AM),
Jeff said:

Nick thinks that listening is very similar to reading because you are still able to create your own images inside your head. Whereas watching the movie is different because you are seeing the images that one person created inside their head – and are not able to create your own.

Maybe he will post to clarify this… but I doubt it.

On 08 September 2004 (10:16 AM),
Pam said:

Once I remember Mac and I having a discussion with you about the baseball term “games above .500.” Mac and I argued that the term is mathematically incorrect and should be changed. Your stance was that the term has been defined a certain way, has been used that way throughout history, and is understood by the general public to mean a certain thing, so that the term should not be changed. But now you want to change the definition of reading?? Hasn’t it been defined a certain way and been understood to mean a certain thing, too??

On 08 September 2004 (10:20 AM),
Dana said:

Pam,

JD has very particular, and somewhat idiosynchratic, ideas about what certain words mean. And he’s not that consistent, sometimes.

This has the potential to shear off into a very different conversation about meaning and relativism…You Have Been Warned! =)

On 08 September 2004 (10:37 AM),
J.D. said:

Edited because I’m not really feeling that cranky or defensive and shouldn’t have come off that way:

Dana: This has the potential to shear off into a very different conversation about meaning and relativism.

You’ll note that today is the anniversary of “Everything Here is True”, by the way. :)

I’m usually well aware of the literal definitions of the words I use, of the words’ denotations. But I’m also concerned about connotation. What does a word mean in actual usage?

In this case, however, it’s more a matter of confusion than of anything else. My brain is jumbling various actions, and is having a difficult time sorting how these actions should be labeled.

I can understand that the physical act of listening to a book on CD should be referred to as “listening to a book”, but I cannot force myself to believe that after I have listened to, for example, Dracula on CD I could not be said to have read it. I most certainly have read the book.

And what about the blind? After all, they are not reading; they’re merely feeling the page. It’s not the same thing!

The act of reading, according to the primary definition of the word, is a visual one. But once one has read, felt, or listened to a text, I do not see why one cannot be said to have read it, by a secondary definition.

I guess what I’m seeing here, or wanting here, is evolution of the language. In this case, the verb “to read” already has multiple definitions, and I believe another one (if it doesn’t already exist) should include the act of having listened to an audio book, should be something like “the act of having consumed a piece of text”.

Language is mutable. It evolves.

As is the case when Dana makes idiosynchratic use of the word “shear” when she means “sheer”…

:)

On 08 September 2004 (11:06 AM),
Dana said:

Shear vs. Sheer — typo.

I think there is a very great difference between processing a series of physical symbols (printed or embossed on a page) with either your sense of sight or your sense of touch vs. listening to someone else do that processing and then repeating the words audibly for you to hear.

Listening is passive. Reading (either words or braille) is active.

If you listen to an audio book, I would contend that, yes, you have access to the contents of the book, just as someone who has read the book will. But you have gained that access through another process.

You want to take and push the additional meaning “access to the contents of a book” into the word read, which previously has referred to the action of actually reading words.

Does language evolve? Yes. Does anybody other than you actually use the word read to indicate that they have listened to an audio book? I don’t know. I’ve never heard it used that way, but that means nothing.

When I hear a radio drama, I have not read it. I heard it. I listened to it.

I do not read the NPR news broadcasts, which the reporters are, in fact, reading off of news copy.

When I listen to Garrison Keillor’s Writers Almanac, I do not say I have read the poem he recites — I have listened to him recite the poem.

When I go to a book reading, I hear the author read passages of a book. I do not then say I have read those passages. I have heard them.

I see the connotation you are trying to extend here. I think it’s arbitrary, and not something that is general usage. As a consequence, I see no good argument for simply arbitrarily declaring that it is in fact the way the word should be used.

But that’s just my opinion.

On 08 September 2004 (11:19 AM),
J.D. said:

Dana, my dictionary has forty-six definitions for the word “read”.

The first is “to look at carefully so as to understand the meaning of (something written, printed, etc.).

The fourth is “to apprehend the meaning (of signs, characters, etc.) otherwise than with the eyes, as by means of the fingers.” (This definition comes dangerously close to admitting “listening to a CD” as the act of reading.)

The twentieth definition is “to hear and understand (a transmitted radio message or the person transmitting it)”. As in “I read you”. By this definition, I think I’m quite justified in saying that any book to which I listen I have also “read”.

Dana: I see the connotation you are trying to extend here. I think it’s arbitrary, and not something that is general usage.

Arbitrary? You think it’s arbitrary?

sigh

It’s not arbitrary in any way. In fact, a quick trip to the dictionary shows that I don’t have to argue for connotation, I can argue for denotation.

Also, I think you’re walking a fine line when arguing that all reading is active and all listening is passive. I believe that a person can be active or passive at both, or either, or neither. And it is, in fact, the quality of being an active reader or an active listener that allows one to get more from that which one is reading…

On 08 September 2004 (11:48 AM),
Dana said:

Dana, my dictionary has forty-six definitions for the word “read”.

Good for it!

The twentieth definition is “to hear and understand (a transmitted radio message or the person transmitting it)”. As in “I read you”. By this definition, I think I’m quite justified in saying that any book to which I listen I have also “read”.

Let’s think about the ways read is actually used, shall we?

A computer can, using a variety of peripherals, read a disk, or a CD, or a paper tape, or punch cards. Or an ATM can read a magnetic stripe on a card. In each case, we are talking about a machine performing some sensory process to pick up encoded information.

When we are using a machine with a sensor display, we say we are taking readings — we are using a machine to detect something we normally can’t, or in a way that we normally can’t. We refer to this as a reading the device. We are reading the machine’s display — it’s readout. This has become generalized into a noun, so that instrumentation output is now referred to as ‘readings.’ That’s a noun, though.

When using a radio system, we are faced with a display, much as when we are using sensors. We can say “I’m reading you loud and clear,” and the implication here is that the signal is clear. You do not read the incoming sound signal — you listen to that — but the quality of the signal is described by “reading you clearly” vs. “I’m not reading you, you’re breaking up” — the transmission signal is being picked up clearly and accurately by the machine we’re using.

This usage has bled into a slang usage, “I read you,” meaning, “I understand you.” I have never heard this used except as a specific synonym for understand, and only in the scope of a verbal communication between two people. Usually radio operators.

When we read printed matter — words — we say we are reading. So we can read a sign, read a book, a magazine, a comic book, instructions, ingredients, a recipe, or whatever.

In this meaning, ‘read’ indicates we are using our eyes to actively process encoded symbols — words — into meaning.

When a blind person (or a non-blind person who happens to know braille) reads a braille document, they are using their sense of touch to process encoded symbols — words — into meaning.

When two people talk, they are also processing encoded symbols into meaning. We do not call this reading. When we decode audio signals with our ears, we do not refer to this as reading, we refer to it as listening or hearing.

When we listen to a CD, say a spoken word performance, or a piece of music, we say that the cd-player is reading the CD, using the first sense, above. We do not then say, “I just read Beethoven’s 9th Symphony!”

We certainly could read Beethoven’s 9th Symphony. Such a reading would involve using our eyes to process the encoded symbols — the printed notes — of the music. Or we could read a braille encoded version of the music, assuming there is a braille musical notation. When we process such encoded symbols with our ears, however, we call it listening.

When I said “active”, earlier, I see why you say I misspoke. I can concede that.

But look, when you are reading, you are processing symbols into meaning — an active process in your brain — using your eyes or touch. When you are listening — also an active process in your brain — you are processing symbols into meaning with your ears. This is different. Closing our ears is different than closing our eyes. To read a whole book, you have to actively move your eyes around, turn pages, and whatnot. When you listen to something, you sit there and your ears take in the incoming signal. A book does not control the rate of information intake. The speed of an incoming sound signal is dependent on the source of the sound, not on your processing speed.

I really think there are three discrete things we are talking about:

1. The process of reading a book.

2. The process of listening to a recitation of a book.

3. The awareness and knowledge of the contents of a book.

I take ‘read a book’ to mean 1. And it can imply, but does not mean 3. Likewise, ‘hearing a book’ I take to mean sense 2, and can imply, but does not mean sense 3.

You wish to describe all three things with the single word ‘read’. I certainly can’t stop you.
I don’t see that in common usage of the word ‘read’, though. Perhaps that’s just me.

On 08 September 2004 (12:40 PM),
Sparky said:

JD, are you consuming a book when you riffle through the pages to enhance your ability to smell them?

On 08 September 2004 (01:44 PM),
J.D. said:

For what it’s worth, here’s the (smallish) discussion generated when I asked Metafilter about this.

It cracks me up that when I make seemingly innocuous posts, they end up generating heated discussions. Yet, tomorrow, when I finally post my Proust entry (and I will), there’ll be dead silence, despite the fact that there’s much to think about and discuss in it. :)

For the record, I don’t care whether one says he’s “read” or “heard” or “audited” and audio book. I just don’t care which word is used. The important thing is that person has “consumed” the book.

On 08 September 2004 (02:13 PM),
Denise said:

So, here’s a hypothetical…what if your dog eats a book? Has he consumed the book?

On 08 September 2004 (02:20 PM),
Dana said:

On another topic entirely, George Lucas is insane.

Evidence:

Other minor updates made to the 1997 special editions include… a compromise to the infamous Star Wars cantina shooting, in which Han Solo (Harrison Ford) and Greedo now shoot at each other at the same time, the paper said.

Solo. Shoots. First. Without that, it’s a different movie. Grumble, grumble.

On 08 September 2004 (04:02 PM),
dowingba said:

One time, as I was trying to download tracks to a LOTR soundtrack, I accidentally downloaded a chapter from the book. I must say, it was quite interesting listening to a book, especially one I had already read hundreds of times. But I always thought it would have been better done if it was more like an old time radio show, with actors doing each character’s voice, and a single actor who just narrates. It kinda sounded silly having just one guy put on a myriad of different voices, especially when one of the female characters spoke.

On 08 September 2004 (04:40 PM),
Aimee said:

I must confess that I have never actually read a single book in the Harry Potter series; Joel has narrated all of the books for me, employing a cavalcade of voices. Am I less of a fan for not having read them myself?

Our reading aloud tradition extends far beyond this series, but was born in Joel’s youth as he read books aloud for his blind father, Doug. The first book that seven-year-old Joel read aloud to Doug was The Black Cauldron.

Listening to a storyteller was a time-honored tradition before literacy, and an important skill to keep alive in our current world. Oral storytelling depends as much upon the performance as the writing. As such, storytelling is close kin to theatre; Listening to a book on tape, attending a reader’s theatre, or watching a live performance is a shared experience and a significant one. To me, there is a very important distinction between reading a text with your eyes and hearing a text with your ears. Both, however, easily allow you to “consume” a tasty tale.

On 09 September 2004 (08:10 AM),
tammy said:

Don’t know how I missed this post yesterday but I’m going to add my bit today. I think reading a book or listening to it on tape is the same thing. You’ve read the book. Watching a movie of the book is not the smae thing largely for the reasons Nick said above. But to have to go into detail everytime you want to say you’ve read a book and explain that you really didn’t read it you listened to it, is simply ridiculous in my opinion. As JD, said, you consumed it regardless of how it was consumed.

My daughter is in second grade. They have to read for twenty minutes a day for part of their homework. The school makes no distinction whether those stories are read to her or she reads them herself. It all counts as her reading a book. They have specifically spelled this out in a paper that was sent home.

Seriously, I will continue to say I read a book even though I listened to it on tape.

Peeing Off the Back Porch

I grew up in the country.

One of the benefits of this, for me and my three brothers, was that we could pee anywhere we wanted. If we got the urge — no matter where we were — we’d just pull down our pants and take a whizz.

To the best of my knowledge, this is a luxury not enjoyed by city boys.

Best of all, we could pee off the back porch. Even if the bathroom were free, even if the bathroom were closer, even if there were no reason to pee off the back porch, we’d often choose to do so anyhow.

There was something particularly pleasing aboout the long, delicate arcs of urine we sent into the back lawn. Our favrorite target was the utility pole by the back door.

Sometimes we’d have pissing contests. We’d stand side-by-side and pee together: several long, delicate arcs of urine sent into the back lawn. Dad always won, of course: he had more advanced equipment.

It’s been a long time since I was able to pee off the back porch. In college, there were people who did so, but they generally got in trouble with Campus Safety. In Canby, peeing off the back porch would probably have been noticed by the neighbors.

Now, though &mdash now, I am free to pee off the back porch again!

Ah — life in the country…

Comments


On 30 August 2004 (06:51 AM),
Jeff said:

1. It’s just not as cute when you are 35.

2. I will be sure to avoid the area around your back porch next time I visit.



On 30 August 2004 (08:00 AM),
Dana said:

One of the benefits of this, for me and my three brothers, was that we could pee anywhere we wanted. If we got the urge — no matter where we were — we’d just pull down our pants and take a whizz.

You do realize that indoor plumbing is one of the halmarks of civilization, right? And people wonder why I want to be a woman…

=)



On 30 August 2004 (08:11 AM),
Kris said:

Darling, let me reiterate: You are NOT FREE to pee off our back porch. Gross! The mingling odors of pipe tobacco, cat spray, and human urine will surely rid us of any potential relationships with our neighbors.


On 31 August 2004 (10:07 AM),
Joel said:

Kris: “The mingling odors of pipe tobacco, cat spray, and human urine will surely rid us of any potential relationships with our neighbors.”

I laugh, then I pause and think, and laugh again.


On 31 August 2004 (11:23 AM),
Anonymous said:

As an undergraduate, a friend of mine and I made it a point to sneak onto the roof of every building on campus and pee off the top of the building. There’s nothing quite like the feeling of standing at the top of a 4 or 5 story building, hanging things off the side and lettin’ er rip. Look out below!

Given our occassional degree of intoxication, it’s amazing we didn’t fall off the top of the buildings. Seemed a good idea at the time.



On 31 August 2004 (11:40 AM),
Aimee said:

Do I even need to remind anyone about Joel’s impromptu compost privy? Complete with rationalization: “Nitrogen is good for the soil!”



On 01 September 2004 (02:52 PM),
Dana said:

Good lord, Aimee. Ick.

I remember having to actively convince JD to bring along more than one change of clothing for a week-long geek/camping trip a few years back. He finally relented. It didn’t stop the whole ‘Fire in the Hole’ routine every time he cut the cheese, though.

Sigh.



On 01 September 2004 (02:58 PM),
J.D. said:

I am man, hear me roar!


On 01 September 2004 (03:12 PM),
Dana said:

How about “You are Man, smell you a mile off!”?



On 21 July 2005 (01:11 PM),
skippy said:

i wish i was aloud to do that



On 21 July 2005 (01:12 PM),
skippy said:

i wish i was aloud to do that



On 30 August 2005 (11:16 AM),
Kyle said:

Ah yes, outdoor pissing. One of the great joys of life. I truly love letting it loost outside. I try to pee everywhere. I love being a man…

Photo Gallery: Remodeling

[Dave pries wallboard in the parlor]Today, by popular request, I am sharing photos of our renovations, and relating anecdotes from along the way. Warning: this page may take a while to load.

At least 50% of all work on the house occurred during the first few days after we took possession. Our friends pitched in to pull up carpeting, peel wallpaper, and then remove wallboards and molding. You’d think that we would have taken all sorts of photos during these few days. You’d think wrong. We were too busy to remember to document the project until the flurry of activity had faded. This picture of Dave is the only photo we have from those days.

When Jeremy and Jennifer came over to help the day after we moved, we realized we had a digital camera and Kris snapped a couple of shots.

In the following photo, Jeremy and I are peeling wallboard in the parlor.

The wallboard in the dining room and the den comprised quarter-inch sheetrock of ancient vintage. (Most sheetrock is half-inch thick.) In the parlor, however, the wallboards were some strange laminated paperboard material that was reluctant to peel off in sheets. It mainly wanted to break off into tiny pieces (which you can sort of tell from the pile around Jeremy’s feet).

You can also see a couple of corrugated boxes near us. During this project, we filled about a dozen boxes full of wallboard scrap and set them at the curb. When the Oak Grove trash collectors rejected them, I took the boxes to our Canby house. The Canby trash collectors took them. (And charged us a pretty penny, I’m sure.)

[Jeremy and J.D. remove wallboard]

While the adults worked, the kids played. Actually, Harrison was moderately helpful, except when he was dropping the Superbar XL on the floors, or making like he was going to smash the windows with it. Emma occupied herself by lining up all of the empty cans and bottles. Into each one, she placed a single flower. When she had finished, Kris took a picture of her handiwork:

[Emma helped by picking flowers]

On Karen’s suggestion, we kept samples of the various layers of wallpaper. We’ll mount them and have them framed. I love the old wallpaper patterns, though the women universally found them hideous. (I’m not sure about the men; they never really commented.) In particular, I thought the bottom-most layer of wallpaper was gorgeous:

[The bottom layer of wallpaper -- beautiful stuff]

You can’t tell from the above sample, but there are metallic bits in that pattern. It was directly above the ship-lap siding, so we surmise that this was the original wallcovering, probably from right around 1900. Depending on the room, there were between three and five additional layers of wallpaper above the original stuff.

When we peeled up the carpeting (which had been freshly installed in order to sell the house), we found lovely oak floors which had lain unfinished for about eighty years:

[The unfinished floors in the parlor]

We brought in several contractors to make bids on refinishing the floors. Each one said something like, “These floors are gorgeous. They’ve never been refinished.” One of them pointed out a board to Kris. “See here? From this mark, you can tell that these came directly from the factory and have never been sanded.”

[The unfinished oak floors]

It’s a challenge now to keep the floors safe. As everyone said, we should have done the floors last, after we’d done everything else. Instead, we did them first. Now we have to protect them every time we do any work.

The drywall contractor begins work today (seventy-four minutes ago, actually). He came over yesterday to tour the work area with us. He seems to know a lot about old houses.

I pointed out the door to the closet under the stairs. “I don’t want to paint this,” I told Kris. “I love the way the paint is crackled and glazed. We can paint it when the paint starts to peel.”

The contractor looked at the door and muttered something to himself. Then he looked at the paint around a nearby window. He kneeled and ran his finger along the baseboard. He held it up so that we could see: it was black, covered with soot.

“There was a fire in here,” he said. “That’s why the pain on the door is crackled and glazed. That’s why there’s soot along the baseboards. And look at that window — see how it doesn’t have the same trim as these other two? They may have had to replace it.”

While this would make for an interesting story — and we’ll certainly research the possibility of a fire in the den — we’re not convinced that any trauma ever occurred there. That room used to be the kitchen. It seems more likely to us that the heat damage and the soot were caused by the presence of a wood-burning stove.

I’ve decided to document the daily progress in the three rooms that are being drywalled. To that end, here are photos of the rooms at the outset. (For some reason, I can’t find my photo of the dining room.)

[Day one of the drywall project -- the den]

Above is a photo of the den. Below is a photo of the parlor (facing east). You can see where we finally gave up on removing the wallboards ourselves. I took this photo last night after I finished pulling off the molding, which you can see strewn across the floor. Just after I took this photo, I began to label each piece of molding so that we’d know where to put it when the work was done. I lost my balance at one point, and stepped backward. Directly on top of a nail! Ouch! Kris played nurse for me. We checked the nail, and saw no signs of rust, so I’m not going for a tetanus shot. Yet.

[Day one of the drywall project -- the parlor]

The photo below is of the parlor facing southwest. You can see where we gave up around the circular window. The circular window is vaguely problematic. The current wallboards extend beneath it, but because the thing was custom-built by the previous owner, we’re afraid to remove the framing material. The contractor assures us that he can work around the circular window, so we have our fingers crossed.

[Day one of the drywall project -- another view of the parlor]

In both photos of the parlor, you can see wiring sticking up from the floor outlets. Sometime this week, I’ll try to find the time to complete this project. Jeremy helped me by wiring the den, but the parlor is unfinished. I’m going to try it on my own, but if I run into trouble, I’m going to call upon our neighbor, Mike, who used to be an electrician.

Below, you can see the holes in the wainscot. (Not “wainscoting”, according to Craig.) You can also see that if the contractors had gone up only a couple of inches, they would have avoided the wainscot. (This isn’t true around the windows, of course.)

[The holes in the wainscot]

I find it curious that the dining room has so many electrical outlets. The rooms upstairs that are wired like this have maybe two outlets for the entire room. Yesterday afternoon, we stocked up on power strips.

And here you can see the hole in the ceiling:

[The hole in the ceiling caused by the insulation contractors]

It’s really not that large — maybe eighteen inches by thirty-six inches — but still, it’s going to cost a couple of hundred dollars to repair. It’s just Another Thing, you know? We considered making the hole into an access panel to the attic (since there are none), but there’s only about eighteen inches of clearance above it, which may explain why the contractor was crawling on the sheetrock instead of the joists.

Finally, on a more pleasant note, I’ve got a couple of flower photos to share.

When we bought the house, MJ (the woman who lived here) told us there were 134 roses. That number may be a little high — Kris thinks there’s around 120, though she hasn’t done an official count — but it’s true that this house is surrounded by roses. In fact, it’s easy to forget that there are other flowers here.

And it’s the other flowers I find more beautiful.

In particular, we have several hydrangeas around the property. Two of them are spectacular. There’s a deep blue hydrangea by the workshop, and a gorgeous purple one just outside the utility room door.

[One of our blue hydrangeas]  [Our purple hydrangea]

Kris and I have both commented that doing chores around the new house is not like doing chores at all. It’s a pleasure to take the garbage out, to walk through the locusts and the dogwoods, past the hydrangeas and roses. It’s a delight to water the lawn, pulling the hose past the boxwood hedge, around the corner past the camelia. Kris says that she doesn’t even mind doing laundry any more.

Comments

On 12 July 2004 (10:24 AM),
Dana said:

It’s a beautiful house, and the bits of the views I can make out through the windows look fantastic.

I particularly love the round window.

(re: Electrical outlets. During a retrofit it’s generally a LOT easier to drop wiring down from the ground floor than to fish it up through walls to the second floor.)

On 12 July 2004 (10:33 AM),
Dave said:

I’m hoping that your contractor is paying for the fix to your ceiling since it was their problem (the guy should’ve known better that to have been crawling around on drywall in the first place).

On 12 July 2004 (10:37 AM),
J.D. said:

I’m hoping that your contractor is paying for the fix to your ceiling.

Yes, the contractor is paying for the repairs. And he’s promised that they’ll make it so that the wainscot will be fine after a coat of paint.

Basically, he’s been perfect in responding to our concerns. He’s a good guy, with a stellar reputation. (Our drywall contractor was raving about him yesterday.)

We’re not too worried. Yet, at the same time, we can’t help but be a little concerned because of the bungling so far.

On 12 July 2004 (10:48 AM),
Jethro said:

wainscot?

Hey, I know him. He’s the guy who owns half of Canby.

On 12 July 2004 (11:03 AM),
Amy Jo said:

The house looks beautiful. When can we come visit?

On 12 July 2004 (11:03 AM),
Joel said:

Jeremy’s a man of many sterling qualities. Among them are his shapely calves.

On 12 July 2004 (11:04 AM),
Joel said:

Jeremy’s a man of many sterling qualities. Among them are his shapely calves.

On 12 July 2004 (11:09 AM),
J.D. said:

Joel likes Jeremy’s calves so much, he mentioned them twice. I’ll be sure to post more photos of the Grinch’s legs…

On 12 July 2004 (01:06 PM),
Mom (Sue) said:

I wish I could transfer to you the benefits of the tetanus shot I got a couple of months ago. It hasn’t been doing me any good so far. :-) Maybe it would be a good idea for you to get one, although hopefully that would be a needless precaution. (Why doesn’t Genevieve Gorder ever step on any nails when she goes barefoot through whole episodes of Trading Spaces?)

I have been very tempted to stop over but I don’t want to get in the way of the construction so I have been reining in my curiosity. Your pics here are very much appreciated as they give me a good idea of what all is going on. And I’m glad that the contractor will be responsible for the costs of the repairs that his employees necessitated. I’m really looking forward to seeing the finished work!

On 12 July 2004 (02:15 PM),
Coleen said:

Okay … here’s the deal on tetanus shots. You need a booster every ten years. The old “rusty nail” deal is a myth. It matters not whether something is rusty or not (the rust only indicates that the object has been sitting around for a while). A puncture wound of any type (even from a rose thorn) is cause to remember when you got your last tetanus. Clostridium tetani is the bacteria whose toxin can kill you (there is not cure), and its spores can be anywhere, particularly in dirt. So everyone needs to make sure they have their tetanus shots every ten years (good idea to carry that information in your wallet because if you’re ever in an accident you will be asked when you had your last tetanus). So, j.d., call your doctor, and if it’s been greater than 10 years, go get your shot!

On 12 July 2004 (02:52 PM),
J.D. said:

I’m on hold with the doctor right now. Here’s the encouraging word: “A teanus shot is something that needs to be in your system before and injury. It doesn’t do any good to get a shot after you’ve stepped on a nail.”

Great.

And while I wait on hold, here are tetanus symptoms:

The incubation period from the time of the wound to the time of the symptoms is anywhere from a day to several months, with an average of about eight to nine days. Initially, individuals are very tired, irritable, have headaches, neck stiffness, and difficulty swallowing. Then comes the muscle rigidity and spasm, which you will have sustained contractions of muscles, specifically facial and jaw muscles, hence the term “lock jaw”. The overall mortality rate is around 30%. In individuals over 60 years of age, it jumps to 50%.

In some cases, symptoms will develop in the absence of any cut or wound that you can recall. In addition, you may notice restlessness, lack of appetite, and drooling.

Call Your Doctor If:

You are bitten by an animal or wounded by an object that might be contaminated with dirt, feces, or dust, and you have not been immunized against tetanus or received a booster within the last 10 years. Tetanus infection can be fatal and should be treated as soon as possible.

So, I’m going to get a tetanus shot today at 3:30, though it won’t do any good for my current wound. The woman I spoke with told me that I should just keep the injured area clean and watch for infection. If infection occurs, I’m to call the doctor immediately.

Odds are very slim, indeed, that there’s anything to worry about, but Coleen has put the fear of God into me. Well, the fear of biology, anyhow.

On 12 July 2004 (03:56 PM),
Lynn said:

So, Denise, are you reading these symptoms? Have you been drooling?

On 12 July 2004 (05:14 PM),
Lisa said:

Your floors, BTW, look gorgeous in the pictures (even better than Jeremy’s shapely calves). I can’t wait to see them in all their glowing glory.

On 12 July 2004 (09:24 PM),
Denise said:

Ha, Lynn! No drooling, and I’m still eating a lot. But that is pretty scary. If fevers were in there I’d be at the doctor tomorrow.

On 23 September 2004 (11:50 AM),
cindy said:

Let’s see…. the symptoms are tired, irritable,headaches, neck pain……sounds like what you feel like after a day of home remodelling. Yours looks in better shape than mine started 7/31/04. Keep up the good work. Speaking of which I’d better get back to…….

Insulated

Some of you are beginning to believe that Kris and I haven’t purchased an Old Home, but that we’ve purchased a Money Pit. For you, this story will only serve to confirm your suspicions.

(Let me assure you, though, that despite feeling overwhelmed by circumstances from time-to-time, Kris and I do not view this house as a Money Pit; it is an Old House with Issues. When these Issues are resolved, this place will be Beautiful.)

You’ll recall that, with the help of a half dozen friends, we peeled the wallpaper in the dining room, parlor, and den. You’ll further recall that upon doing so, we discovered that we could not paint the underlying drywall. And that we then proceeded to rip off the wallboards, revealing the old ship-lap siding beneath.

We called in drywall contractors, got bids, and scheduled a guy to start this coming Monday.

“Hey,” said W., our drywall contractor. “You know, while you have these walls exposed, you really ought to do some blown insulation. If you do it from the inside, the holes will be covered by the new drywall.”

“That’s a great idea!” we said. “Can you recommend anyone?”

“Sure. Try P. from GCS — he does excellent work.”

I solicited advice from you, Gentle Reader, and you also suggested P. from GCS. And the consultant from the Energy Trust also recommended P. from GCS. P. from GCS has a high reputation for quality work.

I called P. from GCS and explained that we had drywall work starting in a couple of weeks, and could he come out to give us a bid on insulating our house. I met him two weeks ago, and we toured the house.

“This is a beautiful Old Home,” he said. “Let me assure you that we’ll take steps to provide improved insulation while preserving the Old Home’s Historical Integrity.”

“Great,” I said. “When can you start?”

“Right away,” he said. “Let me go back to the office and work up a quote.”

This was a Monday. Tuesday passed with no quote. And Wednesday. And Thursday. On Thursday afternoon I began to fret. I called P. He apologized. He’d been Swamped but would get the quote over right away.

“When can you start?” I asked, worried that he was Swamped.

“Oh, in about two weeks.”

My heart cracked in seventeen places. We felt we needed to have the insulation done before the drywall work started, and that the drywall work had to start on the twelfth.

Kris and I went over the quote and selected a handful of insulation measures. I called P. on Friday morning and told him we’d like to proceed, but that we needed at least the blown insulation part of the job done by Monday the twelfth.

“I’ll see what I can do,” he said.

Friday passed with no word on what he could do. And then Independence Day weekend came and went. On Tuesday, I was in a panic.

MUST. START. SOON!

I called P. again. “Oh, we’ll have a crew out there Thursday,” he said.

Whew!

But on Thursday, P. called me early in the morning. “The crew ran late yesterday. They may not get a chance to start on your house today.”

Despite P.’s concern, the crew did start on Thursday. When I pulled up to the house after work, they were loading the van to leave. I could tell right away something was wrong.

“Are you the owner?” asked a young man, tattooed and sweaty. “We have a bit of a Problem,” he said. He led me into the house, through the kitchen, to the dining room. He pointed at the wainscoting. The beautiful wainscoting, the focal point of the dining room, sported nineteen two-inch diameter holes evenly spaced around the perimeter of the room.

Inside, my heart shattered. Outside, I grinned feebly and said, “Wow. P. told me that you wouldn’t touch the wainscoting.”

The young man shook his head, frowning. “He forgot to tell us.”

I called P. immediately and, with a minimum of panic, told him what happened. He had the right answer: “We’ll do whatever it takes to make it so you cannot notice the holes.”

I felt reassured. Still, when Kris got home, her heart shattered, too. We agreed that on Friday morning she would have have a talk with the contractors.

Which she did. And they appeased her. And they continued their work. Then, fifteen minutes before I was scheduled to leave work, she called in panic. “There’s been another Problem,” she said. “They were putting the insulation in the attic when one of the workers fell through the ceiling.”

My shattered heart crumbled to tiny pieces.

“Come home,” said Kris. “Now.”

It’s difficult to drive home with a shattered, crumbled heart, but I managed. The sweaty, tattooed guy grimaced at me as I passed him on the lawn. “There’s another small Problem,” he said. He led me upstairs. There, in the hallway, was a large hole where the other worker had fallen through the ceiling.

I shook my head.

I wanted to talk to Kris about the Problems, but didn’t feel I could around the contractors. We headed to the Panda Chinese Buffet. Over a lunch of Szechuan chicken and Chinese dumplings, she told me about the meeting she’d had with P., who had dropped by to look in on the project.

“He was re-assuring,” she said. “He could tell that I was panicked, and he told me, ‘I know that these seem like huge problems to you. But we can deal with them, we can fix them. To us these are little problems.’ I told him that wasn’t completely reassuring, but that maybe I’d feel better later.”

We both felt more relaxed after lunch, and driving home we were even in high spirits. Then, as we walked in the back door, the same worker who had fallen through the ceiling tipped a bookshelf filled with bottles and boxes and cans of cooking supplies. The back of the shelf popped off, and foodstuffs tumbled to the ground.

“It’s like the Keystone Kops doing contracting work,” I muttered.

We turned back around and left. We went to see Anchorman, which is not one of the ten funniest movies ever made. (It may, however, be one of the ten most mediocre films ever made. It’s never outright bad, but it the audience never really laughed hard once. Just lots of little chuckles, like you might expect from a sitcom.)

I know this entry does nothing to convince some of you that this Old Home is not a Money Pit. Again, let me assure you that this is a solid building. It just has some work that needs to be done, and there are going to be minor disasters along the way.

We’ve just had a statistically large number of them over the past twenty-four hours.

Comments


On 10 July 2004 (09:41 AM),
mac said:

Oh man…I’m sorry. But we need some pictures of the hole in the ceiling. And if you could, put a body half way through the hole so we can get the true effect. Really though, I am sorry and in my experiences with home remodeling from when I was a kid…when contractors screw things up, they generally do fix things right.



On 10 July 2004 (11:16 AM),
Tiffany said:

I wish I was there to help.



On 10 July 2004 (01:02 PM),
Mom (Sue) said:

You poor kids! My thoughts are with you, and my hope that a lot of these things can be cleared up real fast. I feel kind of sick just reading about them — I guess you could say that I’m strongly empathizing. Somehow we always get through these kinds of difficulties but my heart goes out to you right now while the situations exist.



On 10 July 2004 (07:49 PM),
Anthony said:

Really sorry, JD. I feel for you. But we do want pictures. Of the hole. And the nineteen holes. And the tattooed guy, the way he looks when he says, “We have a small problem.” Good writing, by the way.



On 11 July 2004 (02:05 PM),
jenefer said:

Sounds like Baby Boom with Diane Keaton. That turned out okay, and I suspect yours will too. No matter how bad it looks, a good contractor or handyman seems to be able to make it “right.” We are in the middle of the demolition for our remodel, and we are hoping for a great result also. When we did the bathroom using the same guy, it did turn out great! Here’s to keeping a positive thought.



On 12 July 2004 (08:48 AM),
Joel said:

It IS a great house, and it’ll make you happy for years to come. It makes me happy just thinking about you guys being in that great house. Well, alternately happy and violently jealous.

Pocket Bikes

Note: foldedspace.org died recently, and is gradually being reconstructed. This entry has moved. Its new URL is http://www.foldedspace.org/weblog/2004/06/pocket_bikes.html. The 254 comments from before the move can be found here.

This afternoon’s hotly debated topic here at Custom Box Service is the rising popularity of those miniature motorcycles, Pocket Rockets (or Pocket Bikes). Actually, debate isn’t the right word. We all hate them.

For those of you who haven’t seen these trendy “vehicles”, pocket rockets are miniature motorcycles capable of high speeds, but which are not, for the most part, street legal.

They’re annoying.

Here’s the text of a recent Time Magazine article about them:

the following text is from a 28 June 2004 article by Terry McCarthy

The next big thing out of California is 18 in. high, weighs about 50 lbs. and is capable of traveling up to 70 m.p.h. Meet the pocket bike, a scaled-down motorcycle that is selling faster than low-carb hot cakes across the Golden State — and causing nightmares for traffic police.

First popularized in Europe as specialized race motorbikes, pocket bikes are being sold as toys in Wal-Mart and Toys “R” Us as well as in motorcycle stores. Most are made in China and cost between $200 and $400, although souped-up versions can run more than $1,000. They are powered by either two-stroke gas engines or electric motors that can be recharged by plugging into a wall socket. To ride them, you have to squat down with your legs only inches from the ground.

“Today’s kids want the coolest, fastest ride-on toys,” says Carlton Calvin, president of Razor USA, which sells the Razor Pocket Rocket bike ($230). “The play pattern of racing and the freedom of transportation never go out of style.”

The Razor Pocket Rocket is an electric model that reaches 15 m.p.h., and the company specifies that its bikes are designed for controlled environments like go-kart tracks and are not for use on public streets or sidewalks. But websites of other pocket-bike sellers boast “no registration or insurance required in most states,” and some show promotional videos of people riding the bikes on public streets.

As sales take off, law-enforcement agencies are beginning to crack down, warning that pocket bikes are not safe to ride on the street. “They are so small, you can’t see them behind parked cars or in traffic,” says Sergeant Bob Rieboldt of the Los Angeles police department.

In California, pocket bikes are illegal on public roads, according to Rieboldt, because they are motor vehicles that require registration. But the department of motor vehicles will not register them because most do not pass safety regulations governing headlight height from the ground, taillights, brake lights, horns and so on. The California Highway Patrol has issued a statewide special alert about pocket bikes. Of course in some quarters, that will only add to the appeal.

Jeff hasn’t seen many of these little monsters, but they’re ubiquitous in our new neighborhood. Oak Grove must be a hot spot for them or something. The riders seem aware that they’re not street legal, so they don’t ride down the busy avenues. Instead, they zip up and down the lesser traveled streets, such as the one next to our new home. Or, they ride along the edge of the busy roads, in the bike lanes. This is just as illegal as riding on the street, dudes!

Tony complains that they things are so small that they’re impossible for him to see when he’s riding around in his jumbo-sized SUV. He’s afraid he’s going to hit somebody.

Me, I just think they’re noisy and annoying.

Last week, before we were finally moved in and sleeping at the new house, I stopped by for a moment to check on the floor refinishing project. While I was there, some guy was buzzing up and down our street on a pocket bike. An old man came out and asked him to stop. The rider bristled, got off the bike, called the old man a bastard. The exchange grew heated. Neighbors gathered round as the two faced off. It was a little scary, actually. I hope we haven’t moved into a neighborhood of hoodlums!

Other web links about pocket rockets:

(Another noisy thing in our neighborhood: the kids next door have a trampoline, which is great. They like to use it starting at 10 p.m. and running to midnight, which is not so great. It’s a little annoying, yes, but I actually don’t mind that much because it’s good wholesome fun, and they’re obviously having a good time. (I can tell by their screams of delight.))

Pre-Crash Comments

On 30 June 2004 (04:06 PM),
Tiffany said:

I have not seen any of the Pocket Rockets, but we have a lot of motorized scooters that are pretty loud. The scooters are not street legal either. It really all boils down to parents that are spoiling their kids with expensive toys with no regard to the laws.

At least the trampoline kids are getting some exercise.

On 30 June 2004 (04:40 PM),
Dave said:

Tiffany beat me to the punch on those damnable motorized scooters. If experience is any guide, they’re only capable of operation between the hours of 6 pm and 1 am. Normally I wouldn’t care if someone wanted to risk their life riding an unsafe vehicle since i think of that as just another form of Darwinism sort of like riding a motorcycle, but they are really loud and high pitched. Annoyingly so. Tell those kids to get a job now that school’s out!

On 01 July 2004 (10:57 AM),
Denise said:

Welcome to the big city, J.D. and Kris…or at least Milwaukie.

The only thing I have to say about Pocket Rockets is it is a sad reflection on what a consumerist society the US has become.

On 01 July 2004 (11:36 AM),
Lisa said:

We’re hearing a lot of the motorized scooters too, and they are LOUD! I suppose pocket bikes are a matter of time. They are really cute, though.

I’m a big fan of road rules for public safety. It would be terrifying to be responsible for the death of someone, and I wouldn’t feel much better knowing that they were riding something illegal to express their individuality. Arrest ’em all!

On the subject of weird confrontations, I overheard a store person and a shopper arguing about whether an area marked with white lines was a parking space. I can’t believe the shopper thought it was–perhaps she should be banned from the road along with the pocket bikes.

On 01 July 2004 (03:49 PM),
Johnny said:

I remember the first time I saw a guy riding one of those pocket bikes. I thought he’d ripped off some kid’s toy. Then I wondered why he was bothering to wear a helmet. Then, as he took off at Mach 1, I wondered how he maintained his knees sitting like that.

On 06 July 2004 (01:40 AM),
Thanh said:

What’s wrong with people and kids having a bit of fun? It’s a cheap product ($200-400 for the Chinese bikes depending on where you buy it) which is about the cost of 2 Xboxes or 2 Playstation 2. Yes, I agree it’s pretty unsafe if the rider isn’t wearing any gear. Yes they’re a bit noisy, but riding them in the daytime shouldn’t be a problem. How come people take the time to complain about the noise of a pocket bike when I see all these wanna-be Hells Angels in the suburbs with their Harleys and Choppers making more noise than semis down the freeway? And BTW, the legality of pocket bikes riding in the bike lane (at least in California) is a gray-area. Motorized scooters are allowed to be in the bike lane here (16yrs+ with helmet) and technically the pocket bikes CAN be classified as a motorized scooter-look it up in the CA Vehicle Code book. It’s gonna take a court case (or a more concrete law) to settle it. As for SUV drivers being unable to see pocket bike riders, gimme a break. I have yet to see a SUV driver being able to see anything but themselves on the road. So kids jumping up and down on a trampoline well into the night is considered good wholesome fun whereas people riding pocket bikes are just asses? Cmon people! Not every rider is an ass, most of us just wanna have some fun. All of us realize that if we piss off enough people, no one going to be riding.

On 08 July 2004 (03:00 PM),
Shawn said:

I agree with Thanh, although I don’t have a Pocket bike, I have seen them and wondered what it would be like to ride one. Then we decided that you really can’t see them in a bigger car so it would be slightly unsafe to ride. As for others, if you want to ride an unsafe vehicle through the street… go for it. On the noise issue, I think first you should address the “lowriders” with 22″ subwoofers in the back setting off car alarms before you complain about a high pitched buzzing that is gone in a few moments.

On 08 July 2004 (05:50 PM),
Johnny said:

The difference between the high pitched scooters/ pocket bikes and the lowriders is that it’s much harder to get a bead on the scooters and pocket bikes because they’re so much smaller. You need much better aiming skills.

On 12 July 2004 (06:54 AM),
Kim said:

My husband and I go camping several times a month with our children and these little bikes have become very well known. My kids love them and I must say they are very cute. I do worry about how safe they are, but then I do feel that it is up to the parents to watch their children at all times and be very strict with the rules and how to use them. I don’t mind them at all as long as I know that kids follow the rules of the road and they respect other people and cars around them. It’s the big “KIDS” out there that ruin it for the little ones with their foul mouths and can’t seem to follow the rules. I say it’s a great, fun little toy and my boys eyes light up each time they see them. I think we will buy one for our son to enjoy while camping, but only to he played with where he can’t bother anyone, or get in anyones way. Just remember, toys have changed tons in the years sense we were little, and we all knows how it feels to see something we really want to have and how much it means to us when we get it. Kids are only kids for a short time, so I say there is nothing wrong with a little fun.

On 14 July 2004 (10:46 AM),
Stacey said:

What is the difference between a car with a broken muffler or a loud pocket bike? nothing, so if you want to complain about pocket bikes, then you should complain about every car that drives by your house with a broken muffler. Pocket bikes are legal if the rider has a driver’s license, and if a person is riding by your house and you dont like it there is nothing you can do because a street is government property. I dont understand why everytime a new toy comes out that is meant for enjoyment, uptight people have to go and ruin it. If a person is going to ride a pocket bike irresponcibly and get hurt, then let them, why should you care if you don’t like pocket bikes. And just to top it off, I think YOU are annoying. =o) peace.

On 14 July 2004 (12:08 PM),
Jahari said:

I don’t know why pocket bikes have to be illegal on sidewalks. Because if you think about it, you could stop or go around the pedestrians. I mean kids need a way to get to school if they can’t drive or have their parents drive them. I know people ride the bus, but not all kids like to ride that. I mean if I wore a helmet then it should be fine, right? And why do you have to be 16? I mean when your 16 you can have a car and no one is going to pass up a car for a motor bike. I mean you should make the age 13 and older. A 16 year old can get hurt just as easily as a 13 year old can. Plus, you don’t have to ride pocket bikes in the street you could ride them in the bike lane. NE way. PEACE YALL!

On 14 July 2004 (12:25 PM),
J.D. said:

Okay, though I disagree with most of you, I’m not arguing because I recognize you have valid points. However, this is dumb:

I don’t know why pocket bikes have to be illegal on sidewalks.

Pocket bikes are illegal on sidewalks for the same reason motorcycles or automobiles are illegal on sidewalks. They’re too big, and they go too fast, and they can easily hurt a pedestrian or, worse, be hurt by an automobile.

Remember: in most places, bicycles are illegal on sidewalks, too. You might not think it’s true, but it is. (It’s not a law that is often enforced.) There are reasons for this.

Riding a pocket bike on a sidewalk is dangerous.

On 17 July 2004 (03:15 AM),
terry said:

hello everyone, i dont know what all the fuss is about, pocketbikes should be aloud the same privilages as a bicycle. motorized scooters are all over the place, and they are not illegal. if they are not then i dont see why pocketbikes are not legal, its the same dang thing. the noise? hell what about the import cars like honda and acura, most of the mufflers on them sound like a bunch of pissed off bees in a tin can. as of right now pocketbikes are not legal on the streets or in the bike lanes, buy you can ride them all day long on private property or in a designated area. we should at least be aloud to to ride them in the bike lanes. im 22 yrs old, i bought one for fun and transportation (my work is about a mile away from where i live) and these bikes will travel about 20-30 miles on a tank of gas. ok ill stop talking now, take care all!!!

On 17 July 2004 (06:47 PM),
Z. said:

I don’t get it. If “pocket bike” riders want to be on the public streets, then buy a 50cc street legal scooter! Then, you won’t have to worry about being pulled over by a cop and getting it confiscated.

If you bought a pocket bike for fun AND transportation, then you should have thought about how viable it would be as transportation, considering that it was always in a gray area and could be outlawed at anytime.

I’m speaking from the perspective of a small-bike lover. My first bike was a little Yamaha 50cc Champ cycle. It was like a moped, but had no pedals and was a motor-driven cycle. By design, it was a street-legal bike and it got me from home to work in downtown SF for 2 years. My 2nd bike was a Yamaha RX-50… a small street cruiser that went up to 52 mph… legally, on public streets.

I’m on my 3rd little bike, a 125cc Suzuki GN 125. It’s fun, it’s practical, it’s cheap to run, it helps my back, it gets me to those hard-to-park parts of town, and I can drive it on any non-freeway public street without getting paranoid about a cop seeing me go by.

So… want to drive on the streets? Forget the pocket bikes- go for a real bike. Then you can stop sweating and getting peeved at the new pocket bike laws. Getting a drivers license and paying insurance on a street legal little bike is a good lesson in adult-responsibility for young people.

My Suzuki will STILL be on the streets after all those pocket bikes are in police custody!

On 18 July 2004 (08:19 PM),
Larry NC said:

Alright here is the truth about life, the sunshine causes cancer(death), the resturaunts we all eat at have secondhand smoke thick in the air canacer, heart trouma, disease (death), eating store bought foods have preservatives and added chemicals poision (death slowly), the freeways are clogged with cars exhaust gasses, Poisions (death), people driving the biggest vehicles they can find? your helping the poisioning of the earth. by the way we all breath the air out there guess what yeah it causes death too. I drive bikes 600cc and 47cc pocket rockets. with all this bad news people still need something to complain about. stop targeting some-one else or some new toy, look at yourself and ask why are you so worried about that. my son cant get kidnapped on a pocket rocket going to his friends house. but it is easy to grab a child walking, isnt it hard to stop 125pounds going 30m.p.h… Oh yeah when he goes down the road people hear him and notice him. When a child gets missing most of the time no one saw anything, bottom line yes they bother people, yes people like them, yes they are dangerous, yes being alive in today is also dangerous too right. every one praise GOD we can be diferent and complain.. let kids have fun and grow up their way, give guidence and pray for us all..
by the way if you think a weed eater engine is loud you should hear me ride my big bike ha ha ha that is loud!!!

On 19 July 2004 (03:46 PM),
Pocket Bike Hater said:

My problem with pocket bikes is that they are extremely loud. For that very reason, they should be banned. Sure modded cars and motorcycles are loud too but they often pass by quickly and the noise stops. However, kids with pocket bikes go around and around and around the neighborhood creating a nuisance. You people who defend pocket bikes are probably the disrespectful type with no regard for others. Police should cite and impound pocket bikes ridden on the street or sidewalk.

On 19 July 2004 (06:55 PM),
Jim in OC said:

I HAVE AN ELECTRIC RAZOR POCKET ROCKET AND IT IS SO QUIET YOU CAN’T HEAR IT COMING. IT ONLY GOES 12MPH MAX. SO DON’T GROUP THE NOISY GAS BIKES WITH THE ELECTIC. EASE UP!

On 19 July 2004 (06:55 PM),
Jim in OC said:

I HAVE AN ELECTRIC RAZOR POCKET ROCKET AND IT IS SO QUIET YOU CAN’T HEAR IT COMING. IT ONLY GOES 12MPH MAX. SO DON’T GROUP THE NOISY GAS BIKES WITH THE ELECTIC. EASE UP!

On 20 July 2004 (03:31 PM),
Z. said:

It’s not the noise… it’s the irresponsibility of how pocket bikes are driven and used by irresponsible kids. After dark with no lights… with baby brother sitting on the gas tank while pre-teen bro “drives”, no helmets, whizzing across the road unexpectedly without any signal or warning, etc. They act like just because they don’t need a driver’s license, then they can play on PUBLIC roadways in any way they want to. Our police dept wasn’t sure how to deal with it until some kid on a pocket bike got smacked by a SUV while the kid was driving recklessly. Then the bikes got outlawed on city streets.

I don’t follow the “S*** happens” philosophy or take a cavalier attitude that “life is dangerous anyway because of pollution and food chemicals, so let kids have their fun (riding pocket bikes)”. The conclusion (let them ride pocket bikes) has NOTHING to do with the premise, nor can the premise justify it. You’d think the safety of one’s kid is important enought NOT to simply let them endanger it even more (voluntarily) in addition to the involuntary dangers of living in today’s world.

Personally, I wouldn’t want to nurse my kid through a horrifying accident with an SUV. And I wouldn’t want to be an SUV owner either. After all, the kid’s head being exactly in line with an SUV bumper is a scary thing.

There’s reasons why any four-wheeled go-cart is NOT on our public roadways. And I think the same reasons are valid for pocket bikes. Kids who “want it” and are anxious to putt-putt around town need to wait til they’re old enough to get a license for their first bona-fide motor vehicle. And adults… just GET a real bike and all of your complaints and worries about pocket-bike legality becomes a moot point.

On 23 July 2004 (12:58 AM),
MrPocket said:

I agree that pocket bikes should be made illegal on highways or streets where vehicles normally pass. But NOT on bike lanes and parks. I agree that these bikes should be confiscated and driver cited BUT ONLY IF
1. the owner caused harm to someone or to a property AND
2. if it is run at night time.

If he injures himself then there is no one else to blame but the rider for being irresponsible. Besides, there are also a lot of responsible pocket bike drivers why stop them from having fun?

You all complain too much!!! Noise? yeah right. there are new mufflers coming out for these bikes that can easily suppress the noise. If that rule is imposed then that is fine by me.

dangerous? what about roller blades, stunt bikes and skateboards. Can you imagine what kids do to play 20 or 30 years ago?? they get into even more dangerous activities than bikes but most of them are still alive today and even stronger and healthier.

Would you rather have your kids stay inside your house get bored and be stuck with their TVs, playstation, xbox and worse, think about doing drugs or watch porn? Riding is a good exercise and helps people socialize and meet other people.

I am an adult. Why do I like pocket bikes? Simple, it’s the fun of having to drive a miniature replica of the real thing in a smaller scale. What could be more fun than that?!?

Don’t you notice that there are so many laws now that it makes life so much boring and complicated at the same time.

On 23 July 2004 (04:32 PM),
PocketMaster said:

They should make pocket bikes legal. I mean……..how come a person with full blast on their radio at night doesnt get pulled over but a pocket bike that makes half the noise gets pulled over. It’s ridiculous! Everyone should be able to ride it, but only if they have a helmet. That’s very fair.

On 23 July 2004 (05:54 PM),
Dave said:

A) People with their radios on full blast at night should get pulled over.

B) Because one individual breaks the law with no apparent consequences is neither an excuse nor an invitation for multiple people to follow suit.

C) The distinction between skateboards, rollerblades, and stunt bikes versus pocket bikes is 1) that pocket bike riders want equal space on the road with full sized vehicles, an activity that is inherently dangerous to the rider of the bike (pocket bike v. automobile = roadkill), the fact that pocket bike riders generally seem ignorant of this obvious fact leads me to question their rationality generally, 2) there are no rules governing the construction, roadworthiness, lighting, emissions, insurance for or safety requirements for pocket bikes. As such they are inherently unpredictable on the road and therefore dangerous to pedestrians and motorists.

D) The argument that they’re only hurting themselves if they’re irresponsible is logical if you assume that everyone is a rational actor at all times (and therefore incapable of irresponsible actions) and that there is never any other person involved in any given mishap. The only way that holds true is if they’re alone in a gigantic bowl. In the meantime if the pocket bike rider’s irresponsibility means that I mow him over while he’s screwing around on the road where they shouldn’t be I want their insurance to pay for taking their head sized dent out of my bumper and for cleaning their carcass out of my suspension.

On 24 July 2004 (12:35 PM),
civicsport1 said:

I just got one of these pocketbikes sent to me from Cali. its a blast, I bought it to race my 14 year old neighbor. I am 31. I ride a 2003 kawa ninja zx6r and have a valid motorcycle liscense. We wear the proper riding gear and we stay off the main rodes in our area, simply becuase of lack of knowledge of laws surounding thse little bikes. to get to the point. lawmakers should review: 1. their own childhood and notice that they did some crazy stuff when they were “kids” and relax 2. make laws to govern these bikes, I.E. designated areas to ride (bike lanes, parking lots non-state maintained streets or roads with certian speed limits). they should not just arbatrarly sit back and ban them all together and outlaw them. this is America not the old soviet union. how far are laws going to go to protect us from ourselves. I mean we do have free will and are responsible for making descisions for ourselves. If I chose not to be smart and ride down the freeway, I deserve what I get. the person who hits me does not though and thats why I am in favor of rules to govern their use. As for the noise problem. I reciently had the cops called on me for noise, and get this it was 3 pm on a saturday.. not 11 pm on a monday night!! hey I will respect my neighbor and try to avoid buzzing by their house but as a person with a modified civic, I tell you my car makes much more noise out of the intake (not even to mention my exhaust) the my pocketbike does. I am hoping that people will take action and write their law maker to let them know how some of us feel, and urge them to make this a safe “rideable” hobby. thanks for listening to me.
be safe out there
E

On 24 July 2004 (05:37 PM),
dowingba said:

lawmakers should review: 1. their own childhood and notice that they did some crazy stuff when they were “kids” and relax…

Remind me to kill myself when laws start being governed by a bunch of kids’ desire to do “crazy stuff”…

On 24 July 2004 (08:52 PM),
Z. said:

How’s about this compromise, then? Some common sense ideas…

1) Pocket bikes can be legalized in bicycle lanes and in places where normal traffic does not go.

2) Since bicycle lanes are on the side of regular streets, pocket bikes are expected to obey stop signs and signals and give right-of-way to larger vehicles moving in the cross-traffic. Pocket bikes are not allowed to enter main traffic to get into a left turn lane. They must “walk” the bike across the street like a bicycle rider does.

3) Since pocket bikes have no lights, they cannot be driven after dark.

4) Any picket bike rider is required to wear a helmet and may not have any passengers (e.g. baby brother) on the bike.

5) Parents are expected to have adequate medical insurance for their children who ride pocket bikes BECAUSE (and here’s the doozy:)

LEGAL MOTOR VEHICLES WILL NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR ACCIDENTS WITH POCKET BIKES ON PUBLIC ROADS! (This is in case Johnny on his new bike “forgets” that he’s supposed to be in a bicycle lane, forgets to stay off main roads, and forgets to stop at stop signs, etc.)

I keep hearing these claims that people riding pocket bikes are doing it out of their own free will, and if they get hurt, it’s their fault. Oh come on! Get real! We KNOW it won’t work that way! Mommy and Daddy will try and sue the pants off the car driver who hit poor Johnny. The car driver who didn’t see Johnny ends up with higher insurance rates and a strike against them on their driving record, because some people kept clamoring for bikes that do not meet legal safety requirements to be on the road, or on the side of roads.

So… let’s see pocket bike riders and their parents agree to these provisions and accepting ALL consequences for their actions!

(shakes head) I still don’t see any reason for an adult wanting to ride those things on public roads. There’s street-legal 50cc scooters or 1980’s-era cool little street bikes (Yamaha YSR-50, RX-50) that you can buy. And you’d be ENTITLED to a lane.

In fact, yesterday, I had a pleasant conversation with a guy on a scooter. “50cc or 80cc?” He said he was on a 50cc, and it takes some 55 minutes to visit his Mom, 25 miles away. His scooter maxxed at 42mph, and he said he’d LOVE an 80cc- so he can go 50 mph easily. Then, he was interested in whether my little 125cc was freeway legal, and how fast it would realistically go. Then we traded tips on routes to get from San Francisco to San Mateo without getting on a freeway.

Pocket Bike dudes and dudettes… while you folks are hollering to get your bikes legalized on roads (huge uphill battle), we street-legal bike and scooter owners don’t even have to deal with your problems. We KNOW our bikes are street legal and won’t get hassled by cops unless we’re driving like idiots. I agree that driving little bikes around town CAN be a safe, fun hobby and a great way to socialize with other bike owners. The difference is getting something that can be registered. Even in California, my insurance rates are $75/yr and registration is $75/yr. It don’t break the bank.

On 26 July 2004 (03:28 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Ok people, you are right pocket bikes are a tad unsafe, but they are meant for fun, and if you want to complain about something why not complain about things that are really important? Like 12 year old kids smoking weed, and carrying knives. They do make silencers for the bikes, and I do have one, i live in one of the nicest neighborhoods ive seen, with a bunch of uptight people and they love it. So before you go trying to ban the things, think of otherways to solve your problem, like silencing them, or putting speed limits on them. They are meant for fun and you people are ruining that.

On 26 July 2004 (03:34 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Oh, and another thing, my pocket bikes does have lights, turn signals, brake lights, ext…. So as long as im not on a main road, i dont see the problem. you people are just too uptight for your own good, and should maybe stay inside, cause you cant complain about everything in life that you dont like. Id like to be a millionaire, but thats not happening so deal with what your delt.

On 26 July 2004 (04:29 PM),
Dave said:

Well, I live in a decent neighborhood too. I personally like to go around shooting my 9mm at trees in the neighborhood. I never shoot at people or houses. I also like to shoot straight up in the air, where it’s obviously not going to hurt anyone. I have all the proper safety equipment, goggles, hearing protection, etc. and I have a safety on my gun, so I’m safe. I don’t shoot across busy streets or anything, either, I shoot lengthwise down the street along the side where there aren’t any cars. And when I’m shooting straight up into the air if I’m standing under the bullet when it comes down that’s just my own darn fault and I’m prepared for the consequences of that.

I like to do this because it’s fun. Sure, it’s lots of noise, but it’s no noisier than those people with the booming sub-woofers in the back of their little Dodge Neons and I can get a silencer if I want to, so that’s not a problem. People are constantly complaining about me shooting in the neighborhood, claiming that it’s risky and dangerous. But I always shoot with the right equipment and I’m just trying to have fun. So all you people who are trying to shut down my shooting fun just need to go inside and learn to deal with it. And as soon as my 4 year old neighbor can hold my Beretta .32 Tomcat, I’m going to teach her how to shoot at trees and up in the air too.

On 26 July 2004 (07:16 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Well, now lets see, is there a difference between a person riding a weedeater engine in the street, or a person using a gun shooting it down the street? Hmmmmm… well now thats a hard one. Guns kill millions of people a year, ive never heard of even 10 people dying on a pocket bike. Oh and why your shooting down the street and in the air, remember them bullets come down, and kill people miles away, i doubt people even a block away can hear my bike. So yes i do belive that comparing a gun to a weedeater engine, is a little stupid and moronic. Nice try though idiot.

On 26 July 2004 (07:19 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Oh, and while im thinking about it, I dont think pocket bikes should be legal on the streets, main streets that is. I should be able to ride it on the residental streets, thats why i can, that is legal, and someone way above you thinks so. Thats also why guns are illegal Dave, because someone that has the power to decide though so.

On 26 July 2004 (07:31 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Civicsport1, I agree with you, I have also asked my neighbors and they all say its ok, but if one were to say No, I would simply not ride it by their house. By the way, you should be a public speaker, you group your words very nicely.

On 26 July 2004 (07:49 PM),
Dave said:

Heavy sigh.

I love it when I need to explain the argument. Let’s have you all start by looking up the definition of Reductio ad absurdum.

If, however, you truly believe that your actions occur in a vacuum and that you are the alpha and the omega of all your actions and all of their possible ramifications, then the argument will never make much sense to you, I fear.

On 26 July 2004 (09:16 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Dave,

I understand the argument. Its just that you cant have these things without looking at both sides first. Now if we “pocket bike riders” are willing to work with you on this issue why cant other people work with us answer me that?

On 26 July 2004 (09:21 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Dave, I meant you cant have these things banned without looking at both sides first.

On 27 July 2004 (12:33 PM),
David Taylor said:

Maybe they should stop making SUVs instead of telling people that these wonderful new transportation devices need to stay off the road. They don’t use alot of gas and take much less material to make. Redesigning our methods of moving around is more logical than trying to tell us that what we have is not suitable for adult society. Its more suitable than most vehicles out there. Hydrogen fuel cell pocket bikes for everyone! Say yes to Earth and no to gas gussling tanks (SUVs)!

On 27 July 2004 (01:13 PM),
Johnny said:

Yeah, let’s get rid of the SUV! I’m all for it. The SUV is dead, long live the Buick Roadmaster stationwagon!!

On 27 July 2004 (01:55 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Well Dadvid, not a bad idea. Lets do away with Suv’s. They do use alot of gas and you cant see me too well on my fuel saving bike. So keep bikes and not suvs. What do you have to say about that shooting dave?

On 27 July 2004 (02:47 PM),
Dave said:

Not a bad trade off, I suppose. Big, obnoxious, inefficient belching beasts for small, irritating, noisy beasts. With the added bonus that pocket bikes, being smaller than SUV’s, will offer more sporting challenge to hit. Might even have to break out the trusty ol’ 12-gauge.

Yes, I think I could live with that.

On 27 July 2004 (03:23 PM),
Lynn said:

I think that pocket bikes should be banned if only because of their obvious effect on the grammar and spelling of the rider. Not to mention the fact that they render the rider unable to understand the use of an “analogy” to illustrate a point.

Also, as a licensed insurance agent, I can pretty much guarantee that there is no way that a law could be written to negate the liability of an automobile operator when an accident occurs involving a pocket bike.

Finally, the idea of looking at something from both sides needs to involve a healthy shot of both objectivity and reality, or it just won’t work. Comparing pot-smoking to pocket bike-riding is like comparing apples and oranges. Alas, I may be treading on thin ice with the introduction of yet another analogy.

On 27 July 2004 (03:51 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Oh so Lynn,
You disagree when i compared pocket bikes and weed, but agreed with mike about comparing a 9mm to a pocket bike. Well now that sure is funny. Either way I can tell you now that pocket bikes are and will never be banned totally. Maybe frome busy streets and big cities but never from everywhere. So no matter how much we argue whether or not they should be banned, I have already won. So I think that you should just move on to a more important topic, maybe one that you could have a chance on winning and changing, as far as pocket bikes go, you will never win. Ever.

On 27 July 2004 (03:54 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Oh and as far as my grammar goes, it has nothing to with the argument, I simply mis type or dont realize how to spell it. I think that you know that you have lost this battle, and are stooping as low to make fun of my grammar. Either way it doesnt hurt my feelings, and I will always ride my pocket bike, Legal or Not.

On 27 July 2004 (04:06 PM),
Lynn said:

sarcasm

n : witty language used to convey insults or scorn; “he used sarcasm to upset his opponent”; “irony is wasted on the stupid”; “Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody’s face but their own”–Johathan Swift [syn: irony, satire, caustic remark]
via

On 27 July 2004 (05:47 PM),
chic said:

I think this site is really gay all i think it is for is a bunch of gay people to sit down and complain about this and that. why the hell wont you just get a life.

On 27 July 2004 (08:56 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Chic, good thinking In fact some of us have lives but others are trying to tear down pieces of it because they think that they have to have their way. Oh Lynn if you fuckin talk to me like im stupid again, I will shut down your computer, you got that? Think im kidding, try me. I know how to do alot more than ride a pocket bike.

On 28 July 2004 (08:14 AM),
Jeff said:

Thanks Pocket Rider. I needed a good laugh. Please, shut my computer down – I want to see this.

On 28 July 2004 (11:26 AM),
Hoodlum said:

I saw this show and they were showing pocket rockets and they looked awesome. If you don’t like them shutup and get out of the peoples way that actually have some fun in life.

On 28 July 2004 (01:28 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Now Dave and Lynn, I didnt ask you not to respond. I want to hear your arguments, just dont act like im a complete moron. I would like to hear why these things should get banned. And while were talking, lets try to stay on topic here huh?

On 28 July 2004 (02:41 PM),
Dave said:

I refuse to negotiate with terrorists. It’s part of my subscription agreement with 2600.

On 28 July 2004 (03:41 PM),
Matty said:

IM BUILDING A POCKET ROCKET ANF I NEED SOME HELP ON GETTTING IT TO HALL A$$… if any one has a motor for sale or any tips that can help me on my way i would be greatful.

Thank you Matty

On 28 July 2004 (09:51 PM),
Pocket Rocket said:

Matty, I can give you a couple hints on that. Oh and Dave, im glad i could shut you up. and im not a terrorist, in fact im in the Navy. If you must know. Davey, ill give you my e-mail later. Then you can give my yours, and ill give you some hints. Oh, and for all you pocket rocket haters, Fuck you, and glad to get you off the site. uptight mother fuckers, god leave people alone, and get a life. all you can do is bitch at other people, so fuck off. and have a nice day.

On 28 July 2004 (10:20 PM),
Huss said:

This is too funny. Especially Jeff’s recent entry! I am still laughing Jethro!

I can’t believe this is still going JD. Thanks for the entertainment.

On 29 July 2004 (02:31 AM),
Mario said:

In the past people have complained about surfers,paragliders,snow boarding and just about any thing that has to do wiht having clean fun.I like to remind these people that this country is suposed to be free.Go find a Nazy Germany and move there.You complainers will be happy there.

On 29 July 2004 (02:07 PM),
pj said:

Pocket bikes have a new official name: “Trailer trash bitch bikes”. This moniker is more representative of the demographic that rides them.

On 29 July 2004 (03:08 PM),
Pocket Bike said:

Trailor trash huh? And they represent their rider? Hmmmmmm… Lets see, 10 to 1 says i make alot more than you do. So if im trailor trash, your ass would have to be homeless, job less, and havent eaten for about 2 weeks. You cant make assumptions about pocket bike riders, because some are rich, some are poor, and others are about middle. Your prob. just mad, cause you cant afford one. Its ok, you can ride mine. Lol

On 29 July 2004 (04:46 PM),
Harley said:

If you make so much money why don’t you own a real bike?

On 29 July 2004 (05:11 PM),
Pocket Rocket said:

I do in fact own 2 ninjas, ones a 600 and ones a 900. Nobody ever said that i didnt have a real one. You just assumed.

On 29 July 2004 (08:47 PM),
devon said:

hi this is devon and i was wondering if you can give me a pocket bike for free. pleasssssssssssssssssssssssse.
hope you can
hope you do please

On 30 July 2004 (03:29 AM),
Pocket Rocket said:

For Free???, maybe at discount but not for free, they aren’t cheap. If they were cheaper i would. But not at $500 a pop. and thats a cheap one. How much could you spend? I will work off of that. Oh, and everyone, im not really an asshole, i just get mad, when i am willing to risk my life to protect our freedom, and people want to tear all that down. It just doesn’t make sense to me. If you have a prob. with them just ask the rider to not ride down your street. If he still does, then he/she is and asshole. And i cant really say much else. have a nice day.

On 30 July 2004 (11:23 AM),
Spanky said:

That’s funny that Dave threatens to resort to violence to stop these pocket bike riders. What the heck? Smaller targets? Need to use your old 12 gage? Jeez, if premeditated murder is your idea of solving a dispute, I can see how these pocketbikers don’t care about your side of the issue.

Hey everyone! Let’s suit up with our kevlar vests and do doughnuts in Daves yard. Let’s see if “old Deadeye” can hit one of us! And if he does..we’ll stop riding forever!

On 30 July 2004 (01:28 PM),
Dave said:

A) “Humor”; look it up Spanky.
B) Pocket Rocket- “and im not a terrorist, in fact im in the Navy.” Either you don’t pay much attention to current events or your vocabulary doesn’t include the word “irony” (or else I’ve seriously misunderestimated your rhetorical skills). Either way I appreciate your willingness to do your duty.
C) Pocket Rocket- my IP address is 127.0.0.1. I’m connected to the net 24/7 at that address. Go ahead and try to shut down my computer. I’ll even leave the firewall open and the lights on.

On 30 July 2004 (03:01 PM),
Dave said:

Im sorry pocket rocket, i love pocket bikes. In fact i am a complete moron, and Spanky i will let you ride in peace, because you know i could close my windows and doors, and leave everyone in peace, and hey they really aren’t that loud, and they are gone in a couple seconds. So i am sorry pocket rocket and spanky.

On 30 July 2004 (03:21 PM),
Pocket Rocket said:

i have resorted to impersonation as a means of arguing. i have no clue how to shut down someone else’s computer, so i will just pretend to be Dave (except i won’t change my punctuation or spelling to resemble his posts).

On 30 July 2004 (03:24 PM),
Pocket Rocket said:

Dang. i just made myself look stupid. i will now attempt to shut down my own computer.

On 30 July 2004 (05:04 PM),
FUCK YOU said:

Fuck you, where do you live. Tell me, ill come

On 31 July 2004 (07:40 AM),
Pocket Bikes r kool! said:

I DISAGREE WITH THIS CRAP MAKE THEM STREET LEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On 31 July 2004 (07:46 AM),
Pocket Rocket said:

I doub it prob some 7 year old “where do u live ill come.” that is real gay i live in Oknawa Japan… oh ill come…. blah blah…ur gay.

On 31 July 2004 (07:57 AM),
Dave said:

Actually Japan thats great, cause im getting stationed there October 19th, of this year. So I will be there. That is if you do live there. Which i dont think you do, otherwise you have no room to complain about the bikes at all and need to get off of this site.

On 31 July 2004 (05:37 PM),
Margie said:

Ok in response to comparing the pocket bikes to Harleys….NO COMPARISON!! I live in between two of them and I do not live in the hood. Do I want to move? YES. Can I? No…not yet..but for now I see the Harleys leave in the morning on Saturday and come back at night. My husband hates them more out out of fakeness than noise and I see them as a means of going on a pleasure ride for some Old Fogies…on the other hand…what kind of parents are buying these little pit bull menacing pocket bikes? Who are you? The kids in our neighborhood are all from different races, around 8-19 years old, and all middle class. There is one major thread…their parents must be happy to be rid of these boys while the rest of the neighborhood gives them dirty looks. Not me..I step out into the street, tell them they are not street legal, in my teacher voice ask if they need me to talk to their parents, and lie about a sleeping baby. 100% of them apologize and walk the bikes home. how sweet.no egg on my door..yet.

On 31 July 2004 (06:16 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Actuall Margie, they are street legal if you must know. On residental streets, just not on main roads and sidewalks, so really you are not allowed to yell at them. The road is not yours, and therefore you can do nothing about it. Have a nice day and tell them boys i said hi, ok.

On 31 July 2004 (11:36 PM),
Mario said:

I have 2 pocket bikes and I was riding one of them at an empty parking lot.A policeman came and basically told me that they were illegal to ride any where except in private property.Meaning inside your home.I could not believe that.I have been doing some investigating but no one seems to know where it is o.k. to ride these bikes.Does some one here know what the real law is?I would like to know.

On 01 August 2004 (12:47 AM),
Pocket Rider said:

Mario,
Actually it matters on your city/town, and if you have blinkers, lights, horn…exc. So its hard to say. But it is legal to ride them in most cities and towns on residental rodes, if you have the blinkers, horn, exc. I would just ride your bike. If you get pulled over again ask him to contact his seperior and talk to him, if hes says its illegal, tell him you want to see proof, cause 10 to 1 hes lying.
Thats why is such an argument, because there are no laws banning these thing. So if you would like more information on this, contact me at Ghidion101@yahoo.com.
P.S. Dave, please do not leave me bad messages, I am not “Pocket Rocket”, Different people, Thank You.

On 01 August 2004 (10:41 AM),
Margie said:

Pocket rider..you have a black leather couch don’t you? In fact I bet you are a fire fighter or perhaps a contractor..maybe even a partner in a nightclub. I bet you are divorced or perhaps single…I do not want to stereotype you. You are obviously smart and have the ability to charm, but com’on, since when do gentlemen put their own childish hobbies over the burden and inconvenience of others..I say this as a stranger, but I feel like I know you because I have seen many men just like you in my business and neighborhood. PS I don’t yell at any of the kids in our neighborhood..they are kids not grown men…I just inform them of how noisy they are going around in circles for hours.Try thinking about your neighbors and how they feel. I don’t care if my neighbors have Harleys,SUVs, painted dragons on their fences or pink roofs. Noise is much more obtrusive.

On 01 August 2004 (11:56 AM),
Z. said:

Read this article.

Face it… any city, at any time CAN make pocket bikes illegal. All they have to do is pull a DMV on you, categorize them as “motor-driven cycles” and then POOF! your bikes are illegal to ride on the streets and subject to confiscation.

I think you guys are in the same boat as dirt bike/trail riders. You had bought a vehicle that is, at best, an off-road recreational vehicle. Dirt bike riders have accepted that. Soon, pocket bike riders have to accept that, too.

If you spent a grand or two on the pocket bike and DEMAND to drive them on streets (even residential ones), you’re in for a losing battle. A little common sense would say to check your local laws before you buy it for the purpose of joyriding on the streets, or getting a quart of milk, If it’s not specifically LEGAL, then you should logically guess that it could become ILLEGAL.

I don’t have an issue with the sound of the bikes. I have a car too, and I don’t want the responsibility of injuring or killing some doofus who insisted on riding a little bike that is WAY below my sight line. A pocket bike that is obviously unsafe. Think about it… even people who drive little cars can’t see a pocket biike rider on the side of the road… your head is below the level of their passenger door. They look out the passenger side window to change lanes or make right turns, and they CANNOT SEE YOU. If you’re on a pocket bike, you’re roadkill.

That’s the issue, IMHO. If you want miniature bikes that you can race AND drive around in town, campaign to bring back the Yamaha YSR-50s!

http://www.teamcalamari.com/

On 01 August 2004 (04:09 PM),
Claire said:

After 3 months of telling my 14 yr old son that he couldn’t get a pocket bike, he bought it anyway. I called the parent that sold him the bike and told him that they are illegal to ride under age 16. He said “it was my problem, not his”!! He has the money–I have the headache now!!
I called the local police station and they agreed that he needs to be 16 to ride it. However, they look the other way when they see one.
I’m a parent, I’m the responsible party and I don’t want my kid getting killed!! I guess I’ll be the one getting killed when I throw it in the trash.
TAKE THEM OFF THE MARKET AND ANYONE THAT NEEDS TO GET AROUND, BUY A REAL MOTORCYLCE. WHAT IS THE POINT OF BEING 12 INCHES OFF THE GROUND?

On 01 August 2004 (06:40 PM),
Z. said:

Claire, I sympathize.

It seems to me that you need to emphasize your parental RIGHTS over your minor son. Just because he has the money, it doesn’t mean he can just buy a pocket bike and illegally drive it on the streets while you wring your hands with disapproval. You, as the parent, are responsible for the safety of your kid AND the financial liability of any damage he does.

Your 14 year old is not entitled to drive your car either. He might WANT to, but the law says he can’t and being the parent means you have to say, “NO, you can’t, son” and mean it.

So, you need to have a talk with your son. The options are a) sell it, b) we’ll lock it up til you’re 16. He’s a minor kid. You are not depriving him of any legal right. You are in charge of your house, and whatever toys your kid(s) can have. Put your foot down.

BTW- I was 19 when I bought my first moped. I needed a driver’s license for it, and I fully understood my responsibilities and liabilities as a vehicle driver. Problem is that with these pocket bikes, people seem to feel ENTITLED to a piece of the road. Driving is a privilege, not a right.

If people made a stupid decision when shopping, and ended up buying a non-street legal vehicle, yet they’re demanding a piece of the road now that their toys are being banned as safety hazards, I can’t say I’m too sympathetic.

On 02 August 2004 (11:14 AM),
Chris said:

Can someone tell me flat out if pocket bikes are legal or not in California? I’m thinking of getting but i dont want to spend a bunch of money and then have some cop say I can’t ride it.

On 02 August 2004 (06:28 PM),
J said:

I am 25 and I bought a pocket bike and THEY ARE FUN….
All of you guys have become the old fuddy duddy’s that used to stop YOU from having fun when you were younger.
LOUD???
ITS A LAWNMOWER/ROTOTILLER ENGINE!!!!!!!!!
WITH A MUFFLER at that!!!
Next time you old farts fire up that lawnmower for the twenty mintues that it takes you to mow your lawn, you’ll be making TWICE as much noise as a muffled pocket bike. Except you wont be dispersing the noise around, you’ll just be engulfing your poor neighbor with the same noise that you are on this site wimpering about.

The gas powered scooters aren’t for kids, nor can a kid go and fork over the $400 to buy one. So quit trying to outlaw something that’s perfectly fun and safe for us 18-69 year olds that aren’t too busy waving canes at passerby’s telling them to “slow down!”, or “too loud!”.
We prefer to LIVE our lives and have fun doing and experiencing things.

ANYONE 16 OR OLDER CAN GO AND BUY A 1000cc MOTORCYCLE AND GO 150mph+ AND KILL THEMSELVES BUT WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT POCKET BIKES

On 02 August 2004 (09:14 PM),
Z. said:

Chris,

Here’s what the California Highway Patrol has to say:
http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/pocketbikes.html

These are guidelines, and it’s up to the local cities to enforce the law (or not enforce the law) as they see fit. If you happen to live in a city that’s not San Francisco, or South San Francisco, or Fremont, you MIGHT be able to drive a pocket bike on a street, HOPING that the cops don’t pull you over (a pocket bike does not have an explicit right to the road).

But if you do get pulled over, or if the city decides to ban the bikes outright, then a pocket bike owner is S.o.L. with a heap of metal that is unusable unless they want to a) ride the bike in the garage or one’s own backyard (bwa hah hah hah) b) load it in a truck and drive it to a racetrack to have fun c) ride it around any way and anytime you like on one’s own massive farmland.

I live in a city, so for myself, I’d rather be a smart shopper and buy something that’s street-legal to begin with. That way, I’ll never be in doubt and never worry about finding out that overnight, my toy might become illegal.

I LOVE little motorcycles. I like the way they feel, the way they sound, and the way that they help my back and they’re FUN. I’ve driven them for 23 years. I can’t fit on a full-sized bike, so I buy small bikes. But, I make sure they’re street-legal first. I can cruise through the park. I can drive at night. I can have a full lane on anything that’s not a freeway.

In a way, I have something in common with pocketbike riders: My bike is limited legally about where it can go. I can’t drive on a freeway. I know that. I accept that. I knew that when I bought it. I’m not a doofus who’s screaming to get my 125cc bike “legalized” on a freeway, although it can technically go over 60mph. So, if I can accept the limitations of my bike, knowing what it could and couldn’t do, I honestly think pocket bike riders need a similar dose of reality.

What they bought was an off-road, recreational vehicle, just like a dirt bike/trail bike. If they wanted to ride on the street, the first question should have been to the dealer, DMV and the local police, “Can I drive this on the street?”.

All that hollerin’ about “legalize them!” is futile. The banning is just gonna get worse.

On 03 August 2004 (03:12 AM),
Pocket Rider said:

For everyone that is wondering if they are legal or not in California, the answer is no, they are not legal. That is in California, most other places they are. Whoever said that i was very smart, I thank you, because I am. Now, they cant just make them illegal, simply because, then they would have to make motorized scooters, and the little motorized bikes, not pocket bikes, illegal. That as well as they would have to enforce no riding bikes on the side walk, not pocket bikes, i mean regular bikes, and yes that is illegal. Now do u see the problem. That and you only have to tag and insure your car or bike if it is over 50cc, and since they only make pocket bikes up to 49cc, they cant make you do that. That is another problem. For the concerned mother with the 14 year old. Tell him you do have to have a valid drivers license to ride a pocket bike. But do not be too concerned with his safty, the bikes themselves are not that dangerous, it is the drivers that I am concerned with. For anyone that is wondering, yes, I do own a pocket bike, they are a great deal of fun. I do also have a real bike. I didnt buy the pocket bike for transportation, i bought it stricly for fun. If anyone else has anymore questions, please do not be afraid to ask. I thank everybody for their oponion on this, if you would like to contact me, my email is: Ghidion101@yahoo.com
Thank You once again, and have a nice day everyone!

On 03 August 2004 (06:19 PM),
Chris said:

So they are not legal in California. That is strange because my friend who owns a gas scooter can pass by a cop, wave at him and get away with it. It does’t make sense. They have the same rules right? Oh, and do you think I could get away with riding in a private neighborhood? My friend lives in one.

On 03 August 2004 (07:53 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

The rules and laws are different for everything. Its just that people complain about the pocket bikes, and they dont about the gas scooters. About the private neighborhood, the answer is yes you can. The only thing I would do is ask some of the local residents there and make sure that it isnt going to irritate them. Other than that, all I can say is, saddle up and have fun!

On 03 August 2004 (09:05 PM),
Z. said:

Hey Pocket Rider, I think you’re a cool dude. We don’t agree on some issues about pocket bikes, but I noticed that you can hold your own in an adult- level discussion, and as long as people treat you with respect in posting, and you have good information and well thought-out replies. I respect that.

I can only go with what my state (California) has to say about the bikes. The DMV has made them flatly illegal (on streets) here, and my city has decided to step up enforcement on this. I personally agree with the banning of pocket bikes from city streets. We’re a densely populated city, and there is no way that a pocket bike can be safe for the rider, or for the drivers of other vehicles on the roads like cars, SUVS, trucks.

The liability issue disturbs me the most. Even a pedestrian and a regular bicycle can be seen by most vehicles because the head level of the ped/bicycle rider is high enough to see. A pocket bike rider is not high enough to see. It’s unfair for a car driver to be held responsible for an accident with a pocket bike, because those bikes were never properly designed for street use to begin with.

They need to be seriously redesigned. If, somehow, there can be a law that legalizes the bikes, makes them have enough safety equipment (lights, horns), makes them have a high enough seat height to make them visible to car drivers, and requires that they have enough power to properly take a lane (e.g. 25mph), and requires a driver’s license (any, not requiring an M1), and requires riders to follow all traffic laws, then I’d support pocket bikes on the streets all the way.

I think the whole VIN requirement sucks. DMV in California says that any bike MUST have a VIN to be registered. There’s the coolest little bikes for sale on the ‘Net that are 50-100cc, and have all the bells and whistles (lights, mirrors, horn) on a mini-Harley chopper frame. The seat height is 22″. But those baby Harley-like choppers do not have VINs, and therefore cannot be made street legal, even though they seem to have all the right stuff to be street-legal. If I was in the market for a little bike now, and if I could drive one of those babies on the street, I’d be interested in one.

My beef is with stupidity and irresponsibility when people ride pocket bikes around with no respect for the neighborhood, and no respect for others using the roads. Or kids playing “big shot” with their bikes.

But if the bike is large enough, and requires licensed adult drivers on them, respecting road rules, then I’m willing to support a compromise.

On 03 August 2004 (09:16 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Hey Z, actually we agree on more issuses than you think. I to agree that pocket bikes should be illegal on city streets, and heavy populated cities and or towns. I do however think that in smaller towns the bikes should be able to be rode on residental streets. They should however change the age from 16 to 18 because i remember when i was 16 and giving me something like that, well lets just say that I wouldnt be talking to you guys right now! Z your really cool and actually took the time to know what you are argueing about, thats more than I can say for most people, so thanks for trying to see both sides of the issue, see ya later!

On 03 August 2004 (09:20 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Oh Z, I really agree with you on the lights horn signals and everything, that is why before I bought mine, I made sure to have those things included with the bike. For anyone that is thinking about getting a pocket bike. If they are legal in your town, let me tell you that it is the lights, turn signals, brake lights, horn, exc… that makes them legal. Without those options than it is not legal, and cannot be rode. Once again thank you for taking the time to read my comments, and for posting replys, have fun!

On 05 August 2004 (01:44 PM),
jj said:

if you make the mini bikes on sell like 100.99 you might get more dells

On 06 August 2004 (07:46 AM),
dalton c said:

EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!! i have a pocket bike plus i dont go on busy streets or highways so it isnt a problem you know everyone is intitled to an opinion but guess what????????????? YOUR’S SUCKS!

On 06 August 2004 (09:18 AM),
Pocket Rider said:

Dalton C,
Im sorry we are trying to keep this site civil, and grown up. As a fellow owner of a pocket bike, I am asking you to be nice to everyone and if your going to type something make sure it sounds somewhat intelligent. Because if you go just putting random things on the forum, than Im willing to bet that the people that want to bann these things will just laugh at you, In fact I gaurantee it. Do you want to know how I know that, well i’ll tell you.
(1). Because I am laughing at you
(2). Because in your entire statement, you said nothing.
(3). Because you said, “Everyone is intitled to an opinion,” yet you didnt leave one.
(4). Because you said “YOUR’S SUCKS!” and didnt refer to anything at all.
So there are just a couple of reason that I know. Now please stop leaving random things on here, and if you have something to say, then say it, but make sure its worth saying. Once again Thank You everybody and have a nice day!

On 07 August 2004 (12:00 PM),
pocket supporter said:

you people are so fuckin funny why are you arguing pocket rockets are the shit and mybe you people need to get one and if somone wants to kick my ass i live in pa.

On 07 August 2004 (08:36 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Pocket Supporter,nobody has said anything bad about the bikes in like a month. They didnt feel like arguing with me. So now this forum is like a help line for people with pocket bikes, just to let you know. So nobody is going to read you comment except fellow pocket bike owners, or people wanting one. Well now you know what this forum is used for, and if you want to use it for that reason, then feel free. Otherwise please dont make comments like that. Thank You as always, and have a nice day!

On 07 August 2004 (09:01 PM),
Chad Sheridan said:

hey….iam only 14 and i love these pocket rockets…i think its up to your parents to let you buy them…..i just got an electric one and iam gitting a gas one soon…i think they shouldn’t have be licenced becasue they are under 50cc and i herd from people they have to be over that to be able to licence tho…i might be wrong…but all that i no is most people wouldnt do it anyways…and they are fun lil machines…i think they are no harm

On 08 August 2004 (11:07 AM),
Z. said:

Chad, I’m going to have to disagree with you. An “under 50cc” engine is NOT harmless and innocuous as you suggest. A 50cc engine (well, 49.5cc) when geared correctly on a manual shift can go 52mph on the red line. How do I know? I owned a Yamaha RX-50 from 1983-1996 (thirteeen years) and it was a manual shift. I was curious, so I took it on the Great Highway and pushed it to 5th gear, red line. It went 52mph (it was a street legal bike).

Therefore, any pocket bike, if designed in a similar way, can push a 49.5CC engine to a similar speed. It’s a motor vehicle. Not something to give to unlicensed drivers, Chad.

And even something going 25-30mph can also do some damage to other people’s property. I’m not wanting to take your fun away… I think that if there’s a special track for those bikes, or if you have a large property, or if you have someone’s permission to drive it on their property, then it’s cool, and you can have fun as much as you like.

But, when you mentioned “shouldn’t have to be licensed”, I think you’re implying “ride them on the street” and I have to say “NO!” on that.

Don’t let “under 50cc” fool ya, dude. “Under 50cc” can mean some real POWER in a bike. To ride on the street on somthing with a 49.5cc motor, to me, means “DRIVERS LICENSE REQUIRED”. And I had other safety concerns too… detailed in a previous post. They’re not designed correctly for on road use and they don’t belong on city streets, on sidewalks, or in city parks, especially with unlicensed teen drivers.

On 08 August 2004 (12:32 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

I am going to have to agree with Z. Simply because I own a 49cc pocket bike, and you should have to have a lincence to drive it. I say that because I have mine glittered with aftermarket parts and my carb tuned to go fast. The speedominator on mine taps and thats when I am going about 1/2 the speed that I can reach. I just had a friend that had the same bike as me, crash his and he broke his arm, wrist, and ankle, not to mention the bruises and cuts. So they could actually hurt you, and he was lucky to come out with that. I am glad he wrecked because he drove unsafe, maybe now he has learned to drive a little safer. So chad do you see the moral to my story? I am glad you have an electric one, practice on that for a while, until you are old enough to have a lisence. Then get a gas powered one, because like Z I have also owned bikes in the past, and still own a ninja 900. Ill tell you one thing, theses pocketbikes for the size, go faster, handle better, and are MORE dangerous than the real ones, if you would like my oponion on the subject scroll up and read it. Like always thanks for keeping this forum clean and adult like. Please dont make me have to make anyone else look stupid (dalton c), and have a nice day!

On 08 August 2004 (12:48 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Margie, I just read what you wrote, and thank you. I try not to ride where neighbors do not like it. For anyone that has one that happens to read this, do me a favor. Take 20 min out of your day and walk around your neighborhood and ask your neighbors how they feel about it. If they dont like it, avoid their street. This will help with the police as well. Cause hey, if you didnt make people upset, im sure the police wouldn’t care about them. That is unless they are illigal where you live. Thank you, and have a nice day!

On 10 August 2004 (05:06 PM),
johnny m said:

I have a pocket bike. wut is all the fuss, if people will complain about noisy little bikes they why wont we just complain about huge suv’s with v12 and v8 engins that make a lot of noise.
so if u r going to make pocketbikes illigal then go ahead make garding tools illegal while ur at it.

And come on! kids and adults need to have a little more fun its not like u can follow all the laws and also when was the last time u did something fun with ur kid.

yes they r dangurous bout if u r being supervised and stay in a designated area and it is safer than idiots shooting guns all over the place.

and those 50cc engines r only 3 cc smaller what a big deal.

On 10 August 2004 (06:46 PM),
erik said:

so umm well not too long ago i have bought an i think a ninja x-1 so can somebody tell me if this bike is illegal. becuase damn i bought it and i haven’t rode it except once in a private area. im hella scared about riding them in the streets becuase i heard some people’s pocket bikes are confiscated by cops when they get caught riding one on the street. my bike has everything as far as headlights, horn, signal lights, break lights. so can somebody tell me if this is illegal in the sidewalk. and plus i dont understand those people who rides mopeds. i mean damn how come cops dont pull them over it runs with a motor. well i dont know probably becuase they are more likely to be seen by people becuase they are standing up. so yeah can somebody explain to me if the one i have is street legal and can be used in the bicycle lane or sidewalk???

On 10 August 2004 (07:31 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Once again people this is no longer a forum for complaining, it has changed to a pocket help forum. Thanks to me. So please dont mess up my hard work and complain when nobody has said anything bad about them for about a month. For you Erik. It depends on where you live, they ARE illigal on sidewalks, bike lanes, main roads, highways, exc… Most places they are legal on residental roads and private neighborhoods. Just ask you local police. They would most likely give you a warning before they took your bike. And next time check with the local laws before buying something that my break those laws. As always thank you for your comments and questions. Have a nice day!

On 10 August 2004 (09:20 PM),
Z. said:

Oh, here we go with guns again. How the heck do guns and pocket bikes even compare? (as in, “it’s better to have a pocket bike than shoot guns all over the place”). What a non-sequitur! I suppose we might as well say “it’s better to steal a X-box game from a store than to knock some old lady over the head, steal her money and then go out and buy drugs”.

Comparison of pocket bikes and gardening tools don’t wash either, as I’m probably not going to hit a hedge-trimmer with my car on the street.

As Pocket Rider said, it’s been a while since there have been complaints about pocket bikes. Instead, Pocket Rider and I have been having a good discussion about our mutual concerns about the bikes, and discussing the circumstances on where and how certain ones should become street legal. We’re also trying to HELP people so they don’t end up buying the wrong thing for the wrong purpose.

We are also trying to give some advice to people who want to know some stuff. I think this is a good forum for people to ask questions and LEARN. Let’s try and keep it that way.

On 10 August 2004 (09:52 PM),
Z. said:

Erik, there’s a very good reason why mopeds don’t get ticketed and pulled over. They’re legal motor vehicles. That license plate on them entitles them to a full lane and a piece of the road.

Mopeds meet federal and state safety standards, have all of the necessary equipment to make them street legal (headlight, brake light, turn signals, horn, height), and they also have VIN numbers, which the DMV will register.

A moped isn’t a lark… you have to have an M2 driver’s license, insurance, and it has to be registered every year. Mopeds can even get tickets for being parked on sidewalks sometimes! A meter maid who has a quota might want to lay down the “letter of the law” and enforce “no motor vehicles on the sidewalk”.

The only things that pocket bikes and mopeds have in common is a motor and 2 wheels. I am sorry that you are afraid of riding your pocket bike on the street, being afraid of a ticket and confiscation. I think you had made a mistake in buying the wrong type of bike for the wrong purpose. If you had found this forum earlier, we would have advised you to check with your local police and DMV first. And if you really wanted to drive on the street, I would have advised you to skip the pocket bike and go for a moped, or a scooter, or a true motorcycle, so you won’t be in doubt.

On 11 August 2004 (10:51 PM),
erik said:

well alright this is whats going on. i talked to the california highway patrol, dmv, and the motorcycle safety department and they all told me that to ride a pocket bike, you need to have at least an m2 license or m2 permit, a helmet, and the pocket bike to be registered through dmv. however the sorry part is, that the motorcycle safety department said that dmv are only allowed to register pocket bikes that are 50cc and higher. the gay part is that i have a 49cc ninja x-1. damn! so yeah in order for it to be registered, i needed a title for the pocket bike, proof of insurance, and all those necessary information that needs in able to get the bike registered. other than that, the california highway patrol said it IS street legal but only with at least an m2 permit, helmet, and registered vehicle. so basically, they treat the pocket bikes just like real motorcycles and that mopeds are treated in a different definition. i asked the CHP officer and he went off about the difference in restrictions of the two. i dont remember what he said but i just know it was pretty gay. so yeah..thats that, and now im looking forward into having it sold. thanks for the advise and info though Pocket Rider and Z. im outie

On 12 August 2004 (01:14 AM),
Pocket Rider said:

Well, first of all, sorry but pocket bikes are illigal in California. That is why they have those laws, you have to tag it and insure it, but you cant do that unless it is above 50cc. They screw you. Sorry bout your luck, but that is how they decided to go about banning them. Just like, you can sell weed legally if you have a license to do it, but if you try to buy one you get arressted, its just something they are allowed to do, so they do it. Wish you could of had a chance to really ride it, cause they are alot of fun if they cops are cool with them. Once again Im sorry and eveyone have a nice day!

On 12 August 2004 (10:35 AM),
kool-azz rider said:

pocket bikez ar teh bomb
by kool-azz rider

don’t be hatin’ on my pocket bike
so what if I’m sittin’ lower than a baby on a trike
i like ridin’ em cuz they are fun
if you don’t like it, tell it to my gun

i rode it on the sidewalk teh other day
i yelled at some old dude “get outta teh way”
he looked at me like i did something wrong
but I know my rights – so he’d better move along

i gotta be cool an pocket bikes are teh shit
so move your suv cuz I don’t wanna get hit
if you try to run me over im tellin my mama
an’ she yells louder than my 15 inch brahma

all you haters are just really ghey
if you don’t like the noiz then go away
all my friends havem an we don’t care
so try an stop me if you dare

teh end

On 12 August 2004 (12:03 PM),
pj said:

I dont understand what everyones fuss is about. I ride dirtbikes, crotch rockets, and i also have a 50cc 2 stroke pocketbike.If i want to go out and ride it in the street im not risking anyone elses life, im only goin to injure myself. If i get hit by an automobile the driver is not going to get injured. It all depends on what kind of thrill you like. And unless you have rode one, than you cant talk about how wrong they are.

On 12 August 2004 (01:36 PM),
Pocket Pool Player said:

Not exactly correct pj. I’ve not taken to buggering 12 year old boys, but I can still talk about how wrong it is. And as for the assertion that the driver of the automobile isn’t going to be hurt, I can tell you that although I disagree with riding a pocket bike on the street, I’d still feel very badly and be emotionally scarred if I ran over you while you weren’t hurting anyone but yourself.

On 12 August 2004 (04:20 PM),
jackie said:

Does anyone know of any tracks in southern california that allow the pocket bikes. My boyfriend and I bought 2 so we could have fun with them but that was before we got 2 tickets from the cops and learned that they were illegal. Thankfully we only got tickets and they didn’t take them from us. We are still looking for a legal place to ride them without risking them. It really sucks that the pocket bikes are illegal and go-peds are not. go-peds can go just as fast if modified and they are also noisy and not registered. CHP said they only need to have a helmet and follow the road rules in under 25 MPH areas. It’s rediculous to say one is okay and not the other. the only difference is the shape of the vehicle. It looks like a little motorcycle and therefore police don’t want to catergorize it as a scooter otherwise they would have to have the same laws. Well a power wheels is a motorized little car but there’s no problem with that cuz it goes slower! Well then where’s the law that tells me how fast something has to go to before it isn’t a toy anymore & is considered illegal?

On 12 August 2004 (04:38 PM),
jackie said:

One more thing to add….For those of you complaining it’s obvious you don’t own pocket bikes cuz if you did you wouldn’t be complaining! They are awesome and safe, it’s the bad california drivers that I have to worry about. At least you can hear them coming like a mile away just so that they are a little safer to ride. For drivers who are worried about hitting them, I’m sure you would feel bad if you hit any kid on any type of transportaion (bike, scooter, skateboard, etc.) Those don’t even make any noise so you’ll never know they’re there and if you’re not paying attention you could hit anyone, that’s why I agree that you should have a driver’s license cuz licensed drivers know to watch out for cars!!! And for those of you complaing about the noise don’t seem to get it! If you let riders ride them on the streets in the bike lanes with helmets they wouldn’t run them up and down your neighborhood, they would only be loud for a second as we pass you by on the street just like a Harley Davidson does now!

On 12 August 2004 (04:44 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Ok, ONCE AND FOR ALL, this is not a place to leave dumb ass remarks or comments about pocket bikes, and yes that includes songs of any sort.
That was lame, and by the way they are illigal on sidewalks. Oh thats right, you know your rights, oops forgot. I hope anyone you yell at, Kicks the living shit out of you, then trashes your bike. Peopl like you are the reason they get banned, and people like me are the reason they are still even around. So if I were you, and if you still wanted to ride your bike, and do whatever you wanted on it. Stop acting 11 and let the grown ups handle this one.

On 12 August 2004 (07:18 PM),
kool-azz rider said:

Geez, why’d ya have to be so mean? I was just playin’ man. Please don’t ban me from this here Pocket Bike Forum.

Pocket Rider-

Just because some of us have not posted any comments lately does not mean we don’t read what’s going on.

The fact that your recent comments have been civil and educational is admirable. JD hasn’t turned off comments or banned any IP’s, so he must not be too upset that you have turned this weblog entry into a Pocket Bike Forum.

But, that doesn’t change the fact that most of these Pocket Bikes are operated illegally and in a matter that is a nuisance to other citizens. My little bit of lame poetry was simply a parady of what I (and many others) see as the typical Pocket Bike Rider (based on many of the posts here).

Don’t get too cocky and start trying to dictate who can and can’t post here. If I want to post more lame poetry, I will; and if I want resume the complaining about pocket bikes, I will.

You may have turned this entry into a forum for pocket bikes, but that doesn’t change the fact that foldedspace is a weblog that is all about freedom of speech.

On 12 August 2004 (07:25 PM),
Z. said:

I’m with you, Pocket Rider. All of a sudden, what’s all this “people who dis pocket bikes are gay” crap that we’re seeing? How to these people think that “gay” and “hating pocket bikes” have to anything do with each other anyways?

You’re right… people w/ pocket bikes and a jr. high school mentality are part of the problem. Flipping off people and turning up a snotty ‘tude isn’t gonna make the bikes LEGAL. It’ll just piss off more VOTING-AGE adults and get them to push the police for more banning, more enforcement, more citations and bike confiscations.

Instead, if more pocket bike riders were more like you… like talking some sense and reason, and acting like responsible people, then I’m sure that more people would be willing to work things out. Act reasonable, and amazingly, a lot of other people (even if they don’t agree with you) will act reasonable in return.

Originally, I took a look at this forum to see what the controversy was about. I saw some good arguments and stupid-ass ones, both pro and con. I think it’s stupid as hell for a pb-hater to imply that picking off bike rider with a gun would be a fun thing to do. Pb-riders don’t deserve to be shot at for sport.

It’s just as stupid for a juvenile pb-rider to claim “rights” and imply that they have a gun to enforce their supposed “right” to ride it. Pb-riders stamping their lil’ feet, acting like brats and throwing a tantrum doesn’t get any respect either. It just makes grown-ups associate pocket bikes with jerks and snotty kids, which isn’t fair to respectable adult pb-riders.

Road rights aren’t free… they come with a hefty responsibility. Seems that some people missed the point.

On 12 August 2004 (07:36 PM),
Z. said:

Just a thought…

With Erik and Jackie’s situations, shouldn’t pocketbike dealers be REQUIRED to do all the research upfront about local laws, and hand out that information to buyers and prospective buyers? It must really suck for people to hand over cash for a pocketbike, thinking that they can “have fun” and getting the (wrong) impression that they can go to the store or a friend’s house on their bike but end up getting ticketed by cops. It must ALSO really suck to find their several-hundred dollar toy hauled off by a tow truck.

Unless the pocket bike dealers are jackass money-grubberss (hey, we just SELL you the bike. After that, your problem), shouldn’t they be doing a real service for their customers?

As I said, people seem to get caught up with “wrong bike/wrong purpose”. A simple thing, making up a flyer and putting it in the shop, could have saved a lot of people the grief. It s seems that people just don’t KNOW what they can and can’t do with the bikes and sometimes, parents get lulled into “Oh, that looks so cute, I’ll buy one for Junior” without knowing the local laws, so it’s hard to expect Junior with his birthday money to know more than those parents.

On 12 August 2004 (07:59 PM),
Z. said:

Jackie,

I didn’t even know “Power Wheels” were until I looked them up! You mean the little Fisher-Price car for toddlers?

No child is going to take a Power Wheel on the street. They’d be doing circles in the back yard, or in the garage, or in Mommy and Daddy’s driveway, (under supervision) but that’s about all. Some pocket bikes are seriously underpowered (the ads boast: GOES up to 14 mph!!!) and obviously, those don’t belong on the street, just like Power Wheels will never be on the street.

Other pocket bikes can go much, much faster, but that’s the rub… they’re neither/nor. They’re not toys and they’re not truly legal motor vehicles. If they’re underpowered, they can’t go fast enough to avoid a dangerous traffic situation. If they’re powerful 49cc bikes, then they have too much power to hand out to unlicensed drivers. Most of them don’t have enough safety equipment and they’re too small for, say a bus to see. So, a pb is either too little or too much, depending on the type.

And the amount of noise is not a safety feature. people might have their car windows up and have their radios on loud. They won’t hear the buzz of a pb, so don’t depend on just the noise to alert people that a pb is on the road.

Jackie, I’d suggest that you do what Erik is gonna do… if you seriously wanted to ride on the street, sell the pb and get something else that has a license plate. Then you will have real road rights, and no one can hassle you over your new bike. That way, instead of wishing that things (laws about pb’s) were different, you can just go out and RIDE!

On 12 August 2004 (11:36 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Kool Rider, Ill tell ya what. Post anything that you wish to post, but I can promise you if it is something that I dont belive to have a meaning and makes sense, I will make you look stupid. I dont like to do that but I have done it to several people on here, and they no longer post. So it is up to you what you type you have that right, but it is up to me to choose to either like it, agree, disagree, or hate it completly and make you wish you never posted it. If you dont think that I am (a) smart enough (b) have the balls to or (c) will think twice about showing your stupidity, im sorry but you are sadly mistaken. You can try me if you wish.

On 12 August 2004 (11:40 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

For everyone else, if they are not legal where you live then there is no advise that I can give you but to agree with Z and sell it. They do make ones that are over 50cc and can be taged, insured, yada yada yada, but I would check with the DMV and local laws before I bought one. If anyone else has any problems with their bike than let me know, Im sure I can help you out, and if I dont know, Ill find out for you. People im not mean, an ass, or anything of the sort. I just worked too hard for too long to get this forum where it is, and I will not sacrafice someones comments and fuck it all up. Im really a nice guy, if you come to me with real questions and concerns. As always Have a nice day!

On 13 August 2004 (12:03 AM),
Pocket Rider said:

Come to my new forum where we will start new again, the address is: http://www.voy.com/183299/

On 13 August 2004 (07:17 AM),
kool-azz rider said:

Welcome to my sever about Pocket Bikes, sorry all messages have to be approved by me before they are posted. Hope this forum will be of some help to some people.

Ummm… you may want to work on not making yourself look stupid before you try to make me look stupid.

Hint: If you want to get more hits on search engines, you may want to change your phrasing a little – something like “Welcome to my Pocket Bike Forum”.

Good luck with your forum – I really hope things go well for you. If you can educate a bunch of teenagers who have attitudes like my little poem, then you are to be commended.

If things go really well, you may want to consider using vBulletin as your server.

On 13 August 2004 (10:34 AM),
Pocket Rider said:

Congrats! you caught me in a typo. I dont like vBulletin, and This is going to be a private forum, if I wanted it to be real public, id make it that way. It is not only teenagers that I have educated, if my memory serves me right, you thought you could ride them on sidewalks. Hmmmm…. well there I seemed to have educated you now. If you knew any better you would know that nothing with a motor is allowed on the sidewalk, and another law that may suprise you, regular bikes aren’t even supposed to ride on them. Sidewalks are for people on their own feet, only. Not only that but it wasnt a poem, the way you worded it and the groups you have it in does not classify as a poem, nice try though. Oh and as far as typos and spelling goes, I just LOVE all the words in your so called poem. You have to be what, like 13, because I dont know any 18+ year olds that still use Kool. But hey im sure your a smart guy, you may be able to figure out how to spell, and youll get older,and if your really lucky, maybe, just maybe one of these days you might know what the hell you are talking about, and leave an intell. message.

On 13 August 2004 (11:01 AM),
kool-azz rider said:

parody

1. A writing in which the language or sentiment of an author is mimicked.

I thought you had figured out by now that my little poem (song?) was meant as a satirical parody.

Satire

1. A composition, generally poetical, holding up vice or folly to reprobation; a keen or severe exposure of what in public or private morals deserves rebuke.

2. Keeness and severity of remark; caustic exposure to reprobation; trenchant wit; sarcasm.

On 13 August 2004 (11:28 AM),
pj said:

If everyone would take a look around, its usaully not high school kids riding pocketbikes. It is the VOTING-AGE adults. So dont imply that everyone riding them are kids who are just out to cause trouble.

On 13 August 2004 (11:43 AM),
PJ said:

hey there pocket pool player, why dont you go play wiht yourself some more. Its not 12 year olds riding pocketbikes its the adults, so dont say that everyone riding one is a child. And for the bit about you being emotionaly scarred, get a life man. What the hell, why would you be scarred, it was the fault of the pb driver not yours. ITs all the choice of whos driving the pocketbike, to decide if they want to go and play in traffic.And if you would become scarred maybe you shouldnt be driving, you could hit a car and kill that person just as quickly. You people make it sound like pocketbikes are invading the city streets and you cant miss them. You have more of a chance of getting in a car accident and killing that person, than you do of ever hitting and killing a pocketbike driver.

On 13 August 2004 (11:46 AM),
pj said:

On 29 July 2004 (02:07 PM), pj said:

Pocket bikes have a new official name: “Trailer trash bitch bikes”. This moniker is more representative of the demographic that rides them.

OK, i definately didnt post that so whoever is acting like a fucking juvenile fag, your not cool.

On 13 August 2004 (02:29 PM),
civicsport1 said:

Hey I have been gone for awhile from here and now trying to read up. first I would like to say thanks to pocket rider for your comments on this.
I really don’t see why this is such a heated topic. I am heated that the fact that the government is enchroching on our rights one small one at a time. I also wanted to clear up what I said about the politicians and them needing to remember that they were a child once. I did not mean that they should make laws based on a childs perspective. they should just remember that they probably were not perfect and did some stupid things growning up and now look at them. it did not seem to effect them. Just let me decide whats good for me and set some ground rules so I don’t hurt others in the process. I receintly attended a motorcycle gathering in the area I live and there are always a few pocket bikes that show up. Needless to say that when you have about 2-300 bikes in one parking lot, the cops are bound to show up. well I stoped one the other day and asked him about what he thought about pocket bikes and he said that he did not care if you ride as long as you are not cuasing a hazard to other drivers, meanign zipping out into traffic and you are staying to lower speed limit streets ie. (residential with 25 mph limit) and you have the proper safety equipment. he also added some sarcasm. ” that if some one wants to ride their bike out into a busy street and get crushed by a car, I will be happy scrape up your carcase off the road” well you know what. he hit my feelign on the head. I do not feel that the person driving the car should have to go through the trauma of hiting and possibly killing someone but really if the pocket bike rider does try to battle with suvs and other cars then really they kinda deserve what happens. I own a ninja, and I abide by the laws of the state to ride safely, I also own a waverunner and I have taken the proper boaters safty courses and I try to abide by them as well, they should also make rules for these but not just come flat out and say they are illegal and thats, that. like people have said its not like smoking where studies have shown there are heath hazards with that, there has been no research on this and nor shoudl there be. its just a hobbie, please have fun. I enjoy racing my neighbor but I am the older rider of the group. and I get on teh kids cases when they buzz through a stop sign or zigzag across the street. I keep telling them that they should ride like they were diving a car. stop at the stop signs ride on the right side of the road and yeld to ALL cars. I do the same on the water. I know I am on a waverunner and i can outrun most other boats but I stll keep in mind that there are rules and I am on a much smaller craft and in a head to head collison I am going to be the looser. so everyone on a pocket bik should know the rules of the road, maybe have to take a safty course for younger children and give them a certificate for passing the course and place an age limit. I was talking to my neighbors father abtou the way his son rides and how well he does. We looked at one aspect to younger then riving age kids riding these things, they will grow up to be much better motorcycel riders, unlike me who never rode a bike before and my first one I got two years ago and smashed it up twice already. I had to learn the hard way that grabbing front break in the rain is not a good thing, as well as look, lean turn and never look down or you will go down. two mistakes I tought my neighbor and I hope that it will save his life when he starts riding for real.
thanks for reading

On 13 August 2004 (10:25 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

For one, Kool Riker, be gone, it seems im not the only one that doesnt like you or your comments. Also Kool, make up your mind first it poetry, then i tell you its not so your calling it satirical parody, hmmmm just seems like when it comes down to it you have no idea what you are saying. And maybe if i knew you longer than i would have known that, but posting it as a first comment, come on. Nobodys going to know that you were kidding, There are sooo many dumb ass people with dumb ass comments,its not funny. So if you want to post an actual comment and be a little serious, go ahead, ill commend that. And for two, Thank You Civic, I wondered where you went. The forum has sorta changed since you got on. I agree with you I dont know why the topic is so heated, because in all actuality it isnt that big of a deal. Also about the rules, your right on that. Everyone should have to drive it like it was a car. That insures that each ride is safer and that you are less likly to get introuble. LOL, about the front brake thing, watch out those can be real trouble. Well thanks for posting everyone. Have a nice day!

On 14 August 2004 (04:11 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Visit the new Forum at www.voy.com/183299 leave what ever you wish.

On 17 August 2004 (07:27 PM),
Aaron said:

I live in Eden Ny york 14057 i was thinking of buying a pocket bik do uknowif i am able to ride the roads.

On 17 August 2004 (07:29 PM),
Aaron said:

I live in Eden Ny york 14057 i was thinking of buying a pocket bik do uknowif i am able to ride the roads.

On 17 August 2004 (07:29 PM),
Aaron said:

I live in Eden Ny york 14057 i was thinking of buying a pocket bik do uknowif i am able to ride the roads.

On 17 August 2004 (10:13 PM),
Pocket Rider said:

Ask your local law department.

On 19 August 2004 (10:24 PM),
Nam said:

Pocket bikes are one of the funnest things to ride and cruise on. They are safe if you know how to drive it so kids under 15 shouldn’t drive it. Drivers should have a helmet and everything will be okay. Most pocket bikes are under 50cc and under california law motors under 50cc do not need to be registered but has to have headlights, brakelights, signallights. I heard california is going to ban all pocketbikes. I think they just dont wanna see people have fun. and about the noise; noise is going to be everywhere. There are many more things than pocketbikes that will make noise as loud as that. To the pocket bike haters BACK THE HELL UP. we’re just trying to have fun, not cause trouble.

On 20 August 2004 (09:55 AM),
Z. said:

No, no, no, no! I’m sorry to say that your information is quite outdated! California law says nothing about “bikes with motors under 50cc do not have to be registered”.

If you have no intention of riding your pocket bike on public streets, then registration is irrelevant. Go ahead, buy the bike and take it to a pocket bike track and have a good time. If you happen to have a large property, or own a parking lot, or a warehouse, then you can do whatever you like with the pocket bike on that property.

California Law specifically forbids using pocket bikes on the street, period. Cities may enforce the law as strictly as they wish to, and it is possible that some towns might turn a blind eye on riding the bikes on the street. But don’t take it for granted that “Hey! This bike is under 50cc. I don’t need to register it and I can ride it up and down the block, no problem” because you wouldn’t have a leg to stand on, and you could have trouble with the cops for making that wrong assumption.

It doesn’t get any clearer than this:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/pocketbikes.htm

Read up, be informed and know the facts.

And don’t think that California banned them just to take away people’s fun. It’s public safety, and because California is such a car culture, it just isn’t safe for those bikes to be on the streets with cars, buses, trucks and SUVs.

I’m not dissing your bikes, I’m just telling you the facts. Like I said in an earlier post, I don’t understand why the pocket bike dealers don’t give people the right information in the first place!

Be safe, and be smart. Buy the right kind of bike for your purpose.

On 24 August 2004 (02:33 PM),
Kyle said:

I,m 16 and i live in jersey i can’t get my license till im 18. what do want me to do ask my parents to drive me every were. . . I don’t think so.i have a summer job and i am realy thinking about buying one. I give u that they are noisy and acident prone but they are no more dangerous than an real motorcycle. I am for them as long your responsible you know speed limit type of stuff. I know every one wanted something realy bad when they are or were young and this is just another generation.

On 26 August 2004 (03:43 PM),
Paul Schoolfield said:

New Pocket Bike forum – in need of moderators and participants. Please join us or help in spreading the word:

http://smallcycles.com/phpBB2/

On 27 August 2004 (10:41 AM),
Z. said:

Kyle,

According to your NJ DMV, it says that you can get a motorcycle license at age 17. Where did you get the idea that you had to be 18?

Nobody said that they expected your parents to drive you everywhere, so how did that ever come up?

It would be irresponsible for us to say “Go for it. Drive it around to go from Point A to Point B without a license”. Not to be a party pooper, but I think you need to make some calls to your local police and DMV and find out if you can legally buy a pb and drive it around without a license. If they say that it is allowed, then go ahead, buy it and drive it responsibly, like you said.

But if they tell you that you need a license and registration, insurance, etc. then you’re out of luck for at least another year. If you don’t have a motorized alternative, then you can get around on a regular bicycle or a bus, just like every other 16 year old did before pocket bikes made it big.

On 28 August 2004 (05:13 PM),
Steve said:

I think Pocket Bikes are great. Like come on loosen up a little. Who cares if there loud because there just as loud as all that other gas powered equipment out there. I think Pocket Bikes should have the same laws a bicycle has. A helmet to be mandatory I could go with that. But come on what the ____ to all those people out there that disagree with pocket bikes. I believe they should be ridden on the sidewalk but to be considerate the riders should slow down to less than 5 mpH when passing a pedestrian. I can understand how there dangerous on the roads because your head is as high as a cars bumper. I’m just going to say one thing: Times have changed and the toys are more advanced these days and as a 13 year old I think I speak for most I’m going to be purchasing a pocket bike in a short while and if some bored cop decides to confiscate it from me I’m going to be really angry.

On 28 August 2004 (05:15 PM),
Steve (again) said:

One more thing I forgot to add. Pocket Bikes are a great source or transportation for teenagers like me. I would be able to get to my place of work faster than ever.

On 28 August 2004 (06:07 PM),
Z. said:

Ride them on the sidewalk??? You’re joshing us! NO WAY! In a city, there’s way too many pedestrians around, and the sidewalks are packed with people going in both directions. Some are so packed that pedestrians can’t move around each other, so how the heck is a pb supposed to move around safely? I think that people (old ladies included) are entitled to walk on a sidewalk without worrying about some skateboard, bicycle or pb hitting them while they’re shopping or walking home. How fast can YOU brake? Not fast enough, dude.

It doesn’t matter how angry you’d be if you buy a pocket bike, drive it illegally (on sidewalks, or on city streets, whatever) and get it confiscated by the cops. Being angry isn’t going to make them legal. And being a 13 year old who sees a cool new toy and wants it does not give you rights to the road, that’s why we keep telling people to check with their local laws FIRST before buying the bike. Bicycle laws cannot apply to a pb because a bicycle does not have a motor and will not be zooming around town at speeds up to 52mph.

We don’t like to see kids, or grownups getting in trouble and ending up being out a few hundred or thousand bucks if/when their bikes get confiscated because a) They misunderstood the DMV laws b) They didn’t care about the law- they went ahead and broke it anyway because their “fun” was more important c) They bought the wrong bike for the wrong purpose… thought that a pb was like a moped and could use it for transportation.

I donn’t want to be a jerk to you, but I really have to give you a reality check. It’s better that you hear this stuff NOW instead of AFTER getting into trouble. Sometimes people gotta tell you what you don’t want to hear, because it is in your best interests.

Peace.

On 29 August 2004 (11:07 AM),
Steve P said:

Hey Z,

I forgot to tell you that I live in a small town and I come across a pedestrian every 5 10 minutes.

On 29 August 2004 (11:08 AM),
Steve P said:

Hey Z,

I forgot to tell you that I live in a small town of only 20,000 people and I come across a pedestrian every 5 10 minutes.

On 29 August 2004 (11:18 AM),
Robert A said:

-Pocket Rider

Eat shit, give people a break if they wanna ride [pocket bikes then let em. You dont always have to be fucking snob. Don’t make fun of kool-azz-rider hes the best. Fucko.

On 29 August 2004 (09:37 PM),
Z. said:

Hey Steve,
Thanks for clarifying. Even if your town is only 20,000 people, it is highly unlikely that you can drive any motorized vehicle on it, unless you are severely physically disabled, and you need a motorized wheelchair.

Have you talked to your folks about your ideas about a pb? Do they know that they have to pay any fines that you rack up? Do they know that they would be fully legally responsible for anything you do on it (presuming that a person your age can legally ride a pb on the street at all)? Your true legal status is “minor child”, so of course the cops won’t write a ticket out in your name, and no one will slap you with a lawsuit or a demand to fix the damage to their car, etc… your parents would have to pay it, and out-of-pocket too. Their car and homeowner’s insurance won’t cover what you do on a pb.

First steps:

1) Talk to your folks about your desire for a pb. They HAVE to agree to it. If not, you are SOL. You cannot go against your parent’s wishes. They run the show and can veto any toys and stuff you want, even if you are spending your own money.

2) If they agree, have them call the police dept and the DMV to check on the local laws regarding unlicensed teen drivers on pb’s on the streets or sidewalks. It is unlikely that what you want to do is legal, but you and your folks NEED to know.

I still don’t understand where this idea of “ride them on the street” comes from. There has always been dirt bikes and go-carts and dirt buggies and mini-bikes. But, even back then, people didn’t think anything with an engine and wheels belonged on city or town streets. PB’s were designed for racing on paved tracks, not to drive on streets.

Just because they’re small, does not mean that it is a handy way of circumventing road rules, such as age requirements and a LICENSE. A motorcycle is a motorcycle… subject to the same road rules as a car (and then some). I had to pass two different written tests to get my M1 license.

If a pb manufacturer happens to make a pb large enough, with all the safety equipment to make it street legal, I don’t understand why they do not stamp a VIN number on it, so the owner can legally register it and drive it on the street, just like a true motorcycle. Otherwise without a VIN and a plate, most pb’s are only good for the track.

On 30 August 2004 (08:22 AM),
Steve P said:

Thanks Z,

besides my parent my not even let me have one because they know they are illegal. I might get one but I might not. And I live in Canada and maybe the laws are different but there probably the same. I might just wait until I get my M licence and buy a Suzuki Hayabusa GSX 1300 R

On 30 August 2004 (11:39 AM),
Drunk Stepdad said:

What gets me is how they are sold as ‘toys’. But they really are intended to be a track-only racing ‘motorcycle’. They are illegal on the roads for the same reason that a go-kart, an atv, or a snowmobile. It’s not made for the streets.

On 30 August 2004 (07:18 PM),
Nick said:

OK Guys, Ive heard all the guff regarding noise. I have to boys 6 and 8 years old. I bought them each an electric pocket rocket. They don’t ride them on the street and I still have neighbors screaming at my kids to get off their rockets.—-Tough Luck—, these units have all the same rights to use the sidewalk as an electric wheelchair. Get over it, TOYS HAVE CHANGED!!! They have a top speed of about 20 mph, no more dangerous than their bikes and probably a lot less dangerous than their razor scooters. My kids race dirt bikes on the week end and believe me can maneuver these bikes like pros. Dangerous-No, Noisy-No, Good, Clean Fun-YES

On 30 August 2004 (07:18 PM),
Nick said:

OK Guys, Ive heard all the guff regarding noise. I have to boys 6 and 8 years old. I bought them each an electric pocket rocket. They don’t ride them on the street and I still have neighbors screaming at my kids to get off their rockets.—-Tough Luck—, these units have all the same rights to use the sidewalk as an electric wheelchair. Get over it, TOYS HAVE CHANGED!!! They have a top speed of about 20 mph, no more dangerous than their bikes and probably a lot less dangerous than their razor scooters. My kids race dirt bikes on the week end and believe me can maneuver these bikes like pros. Dangerous-No, Noisy-No, Good, Clean Fun-YES

On 30 August 2004 (09:20 PM),
Z. said:

Nick,

It’s cool that you are supervising your kids when they ride their dirt bikes and their pocket bikes… that’s what parenting is all about. Dirt bike riding is a great way that you can be with your kids and the whole family can have fun. I never had an objection to dirt bikes used for their intended purpose. If I had kids your age, I might share my love of small bikes with them and take them out to the trail, too. And when they’re 16 and show themselves to be responsible, I’d help them get their license for their first street bike, too. Heck, I’d probably be riding right behind them, yelling out instructions and telling them how to drive safely!

I don’t believe for one second that a pocket bike has the same rights to the sidewalk as an electric wheelchair! Elderly people (who are adults) are one thing, but kids on a “play” vehicle are not equal.

That’s a “no way in hell” thing. I’d like to see some proof of that “entitlement”. If you’re lucky, your local police might turn a blind eye, but don’t take it for granted that driving on the sidewalk is an entitlement.

On 31 August 2004 (01:02 AM),
Drunk Stepdad said:

Wow Nick, you sound like a great dad, with that ‘in your face’ style of parenting. It seems like you’ll give your kids whatever they want, and let them do whatever they want. Thanks for raising more punks that the rest of us have to deal with!

Although I will agree, if you’re complaing about noise of the mini-motorcycles, you have too much time on your hand. It’s the aholes that have car radios that shake your house from 3 blocks away that should be shot.

Of course, that’s probally one of your kids in 10 years, isn’t it?

On 03 September 2004 (11:38 PM),
Steve said:

Hey Drunk Stepdad,
Even though I don’t even know Nick why the fuck are you making fun of his kids? And why do you have a desire to kill people that like to listen to there music loud? Thats sick. Your probably just another one of those sick fuckos out there that find shooting people amusing and all that other sick shit. So I’d say don’t comment on Nicks kids and stop being a mother fucking prick. Oh ya and the type of parent you sound like is the one that ignore there kids and there kids turn out to be just the same fucking lowlife you’ve become.

On 06 September 2004 (10:58 AM),
playa said:

in virginia the legal age to ride the pocket rocket is 13

On 06 September 2004 (10:58 AM),
playa said:

in virginia the legal age to ride the pocket rocket is 13

On 06 September 2004 (10:58 AM),
playa said:

in virginia the legal age to ride the pocket rocket is 13

On 06 September 2004 (10:58 AM),
playa said:

in virginia the legal age to ride the pocket rocket is 13

On 06 September 2004 (10:58 AM),
playa said:

in virginia the legal age to ride the pocket rocket is 13

On 06 September 2004 (10:58 AM),
playa said:

in virginia the legal age to ride the pocket rocket is 13

On 06 September 2004 (10:58 AM),
playa said:

in virginia the legal age to ride the pocket rocket is 13

On 06 September 2004 (10:58 AM),
playa said:

in virginia the legal age to ride the pocket rocket is 13

On 06 September 2004 (10:58 AM),
playa said:

in virginia the legal age to ride the pocket rocket is 13

On 06 September 2004 (10:58 AM),
playa said:

in virginia the legal age to ride the pocket rocket is 13

On 06 September 2004 (10:58 AM),
playa said:

in virginia the legal age to ride the pocket rocket is 13

On 06 September 2004 (11:03 AM),
john hamphery said:

the legal age to ride a pocket rocket in the Richmond part of Virginia is 13 years of age.im not sure about california but i heard it is 16

On 06 September 2004 (11:03 AM),
john hamphery said:

the legal age to ride a pocket rocket in the Richmond part of Virginia is 13 years of age.im not sure about california but i heard it is 16

On 06 September 2004 (11:03 AM),
john hamphery said:

the legal age to ride a pocket rocket in the Richmond part of Virginia is 13 years of age.im not sure about california but i heard it is 16

On 06 September 2004 (11:03 AM),
john hamphery said:

the legal age to ride a pocket rocket in the Richmond part of Virginia is 13 years of age.im not sure about california but i heard it is 16

On 06 September 2004 (11:03 AM),
john hamphery said:

the legal age to ride a pocket rocket in the Richmond part of Virginia is 13 years of age.im not sure about california but i heard it is 16

On 06 September 2004 (11:03 AM),
john hamphery said:

the legal age to ride a pocket rocket in the Richmond part of Virginia is 13 years of age.im not sure about california but i heard it is 16

On 06 September 2004 (11:03 AM),
john hamphery said:

the legal age to ride a pocket rocket in the Richmond part of Virginia is 13 years of age.im not sure about california but i heard it is 16

On 06 September 2004 (11:03 AM),
john hamphery said:

the legal age to ride a pocket rocket in the Richmond part of Virginia is 13 years of age.im not sure about california but i heard it is 16

On 08 September 2004 (02:16 PM),
mookie said:

That’s pretty cool.

On 08 September 2004 (02:16 PM),
mookie said:

That’s pretty cool.

On 08 September 2004 (02:16 PM),
mookie said:

That’s pretty cool.

On 09 September 2004 (01:30 PM),
pocket rocket boy said:

FUCK ALL OF YOU FUCK POCKETBIKE HATERS!!! IF I MET ONE OF YOU’S ID SHOVE ONE OF MY SUPERBIKES UP UR ASS!!

On 29 September 2004 (01:05 AM),
lil guy makin all that big noise said:

I’VE GOT A SOLUTION …. STOP HANDING OUT DRIVERS LICENSES LIKE TOILET PAPER !!! MAYBE IF THE DMV WOULD STOP ACTING LIKE A BUSINESS AND BECOME A SERVICE EVERYONE WOULD LEARN TO DRIVE BETTER. THE U.S. IS THE ONLY COUNTRY TO HAND OUT DRIVERS LICENSE AND FOOD STAMPS LIKE ITS TOILET PAPER, YOU SHOULD HAVE TO “EARN” A LICENSE FOR ANY VEHICLE WHETHER IT BE A FERRARI OR A RAZOR SCOOTER!!! OLD PEOPLE NEED TO GET SCHEDULED TO RETAKE D.L.’S BECAUSE MOST OF EM GET EZILY CONFUSED WHY !>? WELL BECAUSE THINGS HAVE CHANGED SINCE THE 50’S …. ASIAN PEOPLE & HINDU PEOPLE … I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO GO THERE !!! THEY JUST CANNOT DRIVE ….

BACK TO THE SUBJECT OF POCKET BIKES … LAY OFF PEOPLE …. JUST WAVE AND SMILE … SAY A LIL PRAYER THAT WE DONT DIE AND GO BACK TO LIVING UR LIFE ….. WHY MUST YOU MAKE IT SUCH A BIG DEAL … EVERYTHING IS SUCH AN INCONVENIENCE TO EVERYONE THESE DAYS …. I AGREE IF SOME JACKASS RIDES AROUND AT NITE YEA BEAT HIM WITH A SHOE … BUT DONT STARE ME DOWN WHEN I’M RIDING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD I GREW UP IN FOR 20 YRS DURING THE AFTERNOON WHEN NORMAL PEOPLE ARE WORKING.

On 29 September 2004 (01:05 AM),
lil guy makin all that big noise said:

I’VE GOT A SOLUTION …. STOP HANDING OUT DRIVERS LICENSES LIKE TOILET PAPER !!! MAYBE IF THE DMV WOULD STOP ACTING LIKE A BUSINESS AND BECOME A SERVICE EVERYONE WOULD LEARN TO DRIVE BETTER. THE U.S. IS THE ONLY COUNTRY TO HAND OUT DRIVERS LICENSE AND FOOD STAMPS LIKE ITS TOILET PAPER, YOU SHOULD HAVE TO “EARN” A LICENSE FOR ANY VEHICLE WHETHER IT BE A FERRARI OR A RAZOR SCOOTER!!! OLD PEOPLE NEED TO GET SCHEDULED TO RETAKE D.L.’S BECAUSE MOST OF EM GET EZILY CONFUSED WHY !>? WELL BECAUSE THINGS HAVE CHANGED SINCE THE 50’S …. ASIAN PEOPLE & HINDU PEOPLE … I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO GO THERE !!! THEY JUST CANNOT DRIVE ….

BACK TO THE SUBJECT OF POCKET BIKES … LAY OFF PEOPLE …. JUST WAVE AND SMILE … SAY A LIL PRAYER THAT WE DONT DIE AND GO BACK TO LIVING UR LIFE ….. WHY MUST YOU MAKE IT SUCH A BIG DEAL … EVERYTHING IS SUCH AN INCONVENIENCE TO EVERYONE THESE DAYS …. I AGREE IF SOME JACKASS RIDES AROUND AT NITE YEA BEAT HIM WITH A SHOE … BUT DONT STARE ME DOWN WHEN I’M RIDING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD I GREW UP IN FOR 20 YRS DURING THE AFTERNOON WHEN NORMAL PEOPLE ARE WORKING.

On 28 October 2004 (03:00 PM),
oo said:

i dont even see haw anyone can ride a pocket bike by the ages of 14 and up..i meaan how do you bend dowwn to even ride them????

On 04 November 2004 (09:41 AM),
Jeremiah said:

This pocket bike frenzy is stupid I have gotten a driving on a suspended lisence for driving one of those little stupid bikes down a abandoned road. apparently you have to have a legal lisence to operate one.

On 17 November 2004 (12:17 AM),
Chaz from Oregon City said:

Fuck all of you who hate pocket bikes. It is fucking stuped, I have a super bike and it is very quite and a gas scooter and it is the same way. I can see how it is a little unsafe if some one is riding like a fucking dum ass. but there is no harm if some kids wanna have some fun on the pocket bikes. A lot of my friends have pocket bikes and scooters and mini choppers and no one bitchs about us ridong them, we are out till 8:00pm and no one minds it as long as we dont ride by peoples houses like 4 to 5 times so all of you fucking pocket bike haters, get a fucking life and bitch about something else. And you only have to be 16 to ride pocket bikes and scooters in Oregon.

On 17 November 2004 (07:42 AM),
Kool-Azz Rider said:

Fuck all of you who hate pocket bikes. It is fucking stuped, I have a super bike and it is very quite and a gas scooter and it is the same way. I can see how it is a little unsafe if some one is riding like a fucking dum ass. but there is no harm if some kids wanna have some fun on the pocket bikes. A lot of my friends have pocket bikes and scooters and mini choppers and no one bitchs about us ridong them, we are out till 8:00pm and no one minds it as long as we dont ride by peoples houses like 4 to 5 times so all of you fucking pocket bike haters, get a fucking life and bitch about something else. And you only have to be 16 to ride pocket bikes and scooters in Oregon.

You see this people? This is what happens when you cut school budgets down to nothing. Way to go Oregon!

On 22 November 2004 (06:17 PM),
nate said:

all u haters about pockets need to shut the fuck up . please

On 22 November 2004 (06:17 PM),
nate said:

all u haters about pockets need to shut the fuck up . please

On 22 November 2004 (06:17 PM),
nate said:

all u haters about pockets need to shut the fuck up . please

On 04 December 2004 (10:33 AM),
mat said:

i understand your points of veiw about the pocket bikes, however it occurs to me that kids, (and some adults) are just trying to have some fun.

On 07 December 2004 (03:23 AM),
Chaz From Oregon City said:

fuck you Kool-Azz Rider. All Im trying to say is we all wanna have some fun on pocket bikes and scooters. Thats it so back the fuck off all of you.

On 08 December 2004 (12:48 PM),
Dwayne said:

you people have got to be kidding we are talking about a toy here? Just because half of you are so damn old that you didnt have shit like that when you were young, dont ruin it for kids of this day and age. What the hell is so damn wrong with someone that knows the danger of pocket bikes and still chooses to ride one. you risk you life every time you step in a car what are we going to ban those too?? Just Because some of us want to live a little, dont hate us for that. Im sorry that we want a little something to look forward to or to live for. AND TO ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST GOING TO WORK COMING HOME AND BASICALLY JUST TAKING UP SPACE,,,,WHAT ARE YOU LIVING FOR.GET A HOBBY OR SOMETHING, DAMN, YOUR BASICALLY JUST LIVING TO DIE IF THATS THE CASE WHY DONT YOU JUST
KILL YOURSELF.STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT STUPID SHIT AND GET A LIFE. YOU OLD NAGGING, COMPLAINING,ROTTEN PRUNES FUCKIN SICKEN ME………..

On 08 December 2004 (01:15 PM),
Dwayne said:

Just so you know, that comment i posted prior to this one wasnt directed at old people in general it was for those that eat, sleep, shit and complain about everything that doesnt benefit them. those grumpy old (or i should say older) people that are just mad at the world. so if that is not you please do not be offended by my comment,
but if that is you…….TAKE MY ADVICE.

On 08 December 2004 (06:12 PM),
i boy that have one said:

i c what all u are saying i have two and i also race them on the gp pocket bikes are very fun and unsaft but everything is insaft walking down the street is unsaft so we have to take a chanc we all are going to die one day so fuck it

On 09 December 2004 (12:29 PM),
you know you wannnnnnt it…. said:

society as a whole will always be fearful and critical of the something new or unknown. give it some time, the novelty will wear off. the law will lighten up, people will relax, and pretty soon it’ll be just like a motorized scooter, they’ll hear it coming, look up at it, shrug their shoulders, and move along. that’s it.
but to all you other pocket riders, just play it safe so you don’t end up getting your bike confiscated. ride safely in safe and designated or private areas. ask your neighbors if they mind. be respectful of others. exercise a bit of tolerance and i’m sure we’ll find a place for our bikes. I ride one, i’m 29, i’m a professional, highly educated, and just want to have fun,… but i still understand that there is a time and a place for everything. ripp down the sidewalk at 40 mph, cruising thru pedestrians? wrong. no helmet? wrong. but in a warehouse, backyard, race tracks, during the day, in a cul de sac?….no big deal. just play it safe, for you and everyone else. prety soon, no one will even raise and eyebrow…
that’s all for now.

peace.

On 09 December 2004 (07:56 PM),
me said:

i want one for christmas r they fun and does anyone know if the r legal in ga

On 23 December 2004 (02:18 PM),
Jakar Stephens said:

how does a pocket bike work

On 23 December 2004 (08:54 PM),
Adam said:

my pocket bike i off the chain

On 23 December 2004 (09:06 PM),
Adam said:

All yall haters need to grow up and live a little. And let the kids have fun and enjoy there child life even the adults.

As a matter of fact everybody needs to have fun because you onley get to live for so long.

On 24 December 2004 (08:05 AM),
Chaz from Oregon City said:

Live each day like its your last. So have fun

On 27 December 2004 (02:54 PM),
FUN FUN FUN FUN said:

FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUNFUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUNFUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUNFUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUNFUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUNFUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUNFUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUNFUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUNFUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUNFUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUNFUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUNFUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUNFUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN

On 27 December 2004 (02:55 PM),
Fun said said:

have fun fun fun fun fun……………….. fun

On 30 December 2004 (11:37 AM),
Coery said:

Ok,all the people that say pocketbikes are annoying and dangerous,are gay.They’re gay.Thats it.If you can’t dodge a person on a sidewalk,GOING STRAIGHT, then you suck.I ride dirtbikes.If you’re out at the desert ,Ocotillo, for example and you’re going down Wolf Wells Road and HIT a bush on the side of the road you don’t belong riding a dirtbike unless you’re like 4 years old and are riding a 50.But the point is that Wolf wells Road is the most straight,longest(almost) road in Ocotillo.If you hit the bush on the side of the road you suck.You have 20 feet to go left and right.The sidewalk is the same thing.Just smaller.It is straight and there is nothing to run into except people.If they are in the way you either ride off the curb(which I have done) or tell them to get the hell out of the way.But when people hear you they usually get out of your way.What the should do is make you take a test at the dmv and if you pass you can get a pocketbike license.You should be able to be any age.And when I got my pocket bike I would go piss all the old people off and laugh at them in their face.Yeah!Down with stubbern people!Just to let all the gay people know that they do make pocket bikes with lights,horn,blinkers and mirrors.When I get my license I’m going to get a NSR 50 and put a YZ426F motor in it.It will go like 100.Thats 4000 times louder than a pocket bike.How do I know this I have one.119 decibles(FMF full titainium system)For all the gay people that think pocket bikes are annoying,you don’t know what you’re missing.Late

On 30 December 2004 (11:37 AM),
Coery said:

Ok,all the people that say pocketbikes are annoying and dangerous,are gay.They’re gay.Thats it.If you can’t dodge a person on a sidewalk,GOING STRAIGHT, then you suck.I ride dirtbikes.If you’re out at the desert ,Ocotillo, for example and you’re going down Wolf Wells Road and HIT a bush on the side of the road you don’t belong riding a dirtbike unless you’re like 4 years old and are riding a 50.But the point is that Wolf wells Road is the most straight,longest(almost) road in Ocotillo.If you hit the bush on the side of the road you suck.You have 20 feet to go left and right.The sidewalk is the same thing.Just smaller.It is straight and there is nothing to run into except people.If they are in the way you either ride off the curb(which I have done) or tell them to get the hell out of the way.But when people hear you they usually get out of your way.What the should do is make you take a test at the dmv and if you pass you can get a pocketbike license.You should be able to be any age.And when I got my pocket bike I would go piss all the old people off and laugh at them in their face.Yeah!Down with stubbern people!Just to let all the gay people know that they do make pocket bikes with lights,horn,blinkers and mirrors.When I get my license I’m going to get a NSR 50 and put a YZ426F motor in it.It will go like 100.Thats 4000 times louder than a pocket bike.How do I know this I have one.119 decibles(FMF full titainium system)For all the gay people that think pocket bikes are annoying,you don’t know what you’re missing.Late

On 30 December 2004 (12:00 PM),
BOOBS said:

People that think a 49.5 cc pocket bike goes fast then you are a frikin whimp.Yeah some guy Z in the middle of the page said tha he had a RX 50.it went like 53.Hay guess what dumbass your bike has 5 gears not 1.Who the hell wants to gear their pocket bike high.not some ten year old.Yeah maybe a 15 or 16 yearold.People you have to understand there are 14 year old kids that ride CR 500.If you don’t know what a CR 500 is a real mans bike that will make you crap your pants.It is the biggest dirtbike out there.And there is going to be some dumbass that would say something if I didn’t type this.For a 4 stroke to be able be equal with a 2 stroke it has to be Twice the size of a 2 stroke.CR 500(2 stroke) up against an XR1000.If you try to find a way to make me think IM wrong I’ll have an answer to your question

On 01 January 2005 (11:38 AM),
neighbor said:

Speaking of those mini bikes and pocket rocket bikes, this 9 yr old neighbor boy to me recently got what I think is a battery powered pocket bike for Christmas. Anyway, earlier today I saw him fighting with his 4 year old brother over the bike, cursing him out and so forth. Soon afterward, I saw the four year old flip the bird on each hand to his mother, then jump on the pocket rocket and ride off down the street, escaping his mother who tried in vain to catch him! And these are some of the kids who get those type of bikes! Makes a bad name for the responsible people are riders and fans of mini bikes.

On 14 January 2005 (09:36 PM),
pocket bike owner said:

i am parcially going with neighbor on this one. i ride pocket bikes in races only. not down public streets. Riding them on streets is not what these bikes are made for. And little kids swearing and bigger kids also is just showing how bad parenting can effect the children of todays society. Now these pocket bikes are also not ment for children electric ones mabe but for kids 8 and over. Gas Powered pocket bikes are mostly for race purposes only, they are much to fast for sidewalks. and if there are no lights on the bike then the road is out of the question. Reading all of the bad things people are saying about how annoying they are and giving the riders a bad name, just angers me. The sport is a lot of fun and is usually organized. they have many performance upgrades just like a car only much cheaper. pocket bikes are much to fun to ban from any state and even if they are banned the kids will find more reason to ride them because it might get their adrenaline pumping and wut not. just think about it before you try and give us, pocket bike racers and sellers, a bad name. WE REALLY ARENT BAD PEOPLE well most of us anyway. as for those stupid little kids they need a spanking with a belt or sumthing because those parents are defanately not doing the right thing.. Thank you

On 14 January 2005 (09:46 PM),
Pocket bike owner said:

oh and listen boobs you stupid idiot. its not the speed that matters. its the skill of the riders to do sixty around a tight turning track. I own a cr 500 and no i dont shit my pants everytime i see it. and when you are goin 60 on a pocket bike it feels like 80 in a car. when you are close enough to the ground you see it going by you much faster. Shut up you asshole until you have jumped on a highly tricked out pocket bike and try to race going sixty around a a tight turning track. Dirtbikes are fun and all but pocket bikes are fun too.

On 17 January 2005 (12:46 AM),
Mr. Experience said:

Interesting comments here. As a two year veteran of electric and gas scooters and pocket bikes I can tell you that many states have now made it LEGAL for these vehicles to operate on some public roads and city sidewalks. For example, our great state of Texas passed a law that makes these vehicles legal to operate on any city street with a posted pseed limit of 35 mph or less, as well as city sidewalks. It requires riders under the age of 18 to wear protective head gear. Like anything else, these vehicles can be used and enjoyed properly or misused in a dangerous manner. It’s up to the parents to teach kids about safety and to supervise them. Let’s face it – most beer-chuggin, burger eating, cell phone slinging SUV drivers are MUCH more of a danger to other drivers. That’s what should be banned!

On 19 January 2005 (12:55 PM),
Kevin said:

If any motorcycle riders are looking to buy a pocket bike, you can check out Largepocketbikes.com. They are pretty descent and look like a trusted site.

On 20 January 2005 (09:23 AM),
biker child said:

i think everything with a motor should be banned from all countries around the world if you think something like a pocket bike should be banned because of safety issues when the damn things were created for the “adult child” adults drink and drive everyday, cars with numbers on them go speeds 225 plus and you cheer them on kids on dirt bikes get praise for not falling down and now this little motorcycle is under attack because it looks like the big one but has a weed whacker engine on it?? come on now its not about safety on them its where can those who own them ride them. if you help to create a place for these bikes there will be less problems with these bikes. i personally have a place for me and the ppl who own them to go and it has helped the problem solving

On 25 January 2005 (08:05 PM),
boobs said:

Ok mr Pocket bike owner.I have a shifter kart with a 125cc motor in it with six gears.It tops out at around 94mph.it sits approx 3/8 of an inch off the ground.It will beat the shit out of your cr 500 off the line so bad it wouldn’t be funny.I also have a 426 thats tricked out to a bitch and the same with my Kx 125 with 40 horsepower.If you want to see my 125 go to google.on the web type….www.msnusers.com/125fortrade.If you want to talk about fast hop in a shifter kart 3/8 of an inch off the ground and take it up to 94 beeotch.It will beat the crap out of a tricked out pocket bike.

On 29 January 2005 (03:23 PM),
sam said:

hay i live in england and work all the time with minimoto’s we have grc motos witch can range from 1,500 pounds to about 3,000 pounds alot of money concidering the size of them. you think this but there amazing fun. the new world record for a minimot was set a couple of months ago by a man whom reached 78mph! amazing concidering the size! this was a grc moto cost around 3,000 again but these are the ultimate bikes of there class! nothing like these cheap ones on the market now. 300-400 pound ones tend to be slow and fall apart for starting on there great! you want to be fastest then buy GRC!!

On 07 February 2005 (03:23 PM),
David said:

Ilove pocketpikes. I have 1so what waht are you going to do about it . so what if the make nosies
so what if their low
so what if their fast your not going to die. yes I have been stopped befor but if you are going to band them you sould at lest make a park where we can ride them with out getting in troupple .
howerver made that GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY LAW IS GAY GAY GAY GAY AMD A FUCKING BITHCH

On 03 March 2005 (09:52 PM),
Keith said:

I just got a pocketbike about 2 weeks ago and I havent got caught by the cops with it yet. I hope I dont because it is illegal and I also have an illegal blue neon kit for my pocket bike, so I would be in even bigger trouble. My friend just got pulled over today by the cops and he said he will have to go to court if he gets caught riding again and he just got his 2 weeks ago too and that was the first time a cop talked to him. I have had my motorized scooter for almost 3 years and have barley got bothered by anyone. I used to think it was loud because me and my dad bolted a 2.5 HP motor onto it. Once I got my pocketbike I realized it was really loud, but you’re going so fast that people on the street hear it only a few seconds. Actually I get smiles from old people and people seem to like it, so really what is the big deal. Also the idea of making a track to legaly ride these on would be pretty cool. Anyway, whatever shit face made the law agains pocketbikes pisses me off. Anyone who calls the police because someone is riding a pocket bike is just a jealous bitch. (If anyone wants to know a good website for pocketbike neon, Its www.elwirecheap.com

On 05 March 2005 (01:04 PM),
Steven said:

Those people that say that ALL pocket bike owners are imature are wrong. I am 14, I own a pocket bike, and drive it very carefully on the street. I don’t think it should be illegal. Just have supervision over the younger children. Plus, the people that say that are to loud are just making up an excuse to ban pocket bikes on the street. It make the same noise as the people who mowe their lawns Sunday at 7am. If you think pocket bikes are to fast, your wrong. Most pocket bikes don’t even go up to 35mph- the dealer or websites might say it goes faster, but that is just for them to sell their product.

On 03 April 2005 (03:24 AM),
pocket bike lover said:

i think pocket bikes are mad and if u think they are 2 noisy u dont have 2 ban them put silencers on them. why the hell sould u haters care about our safety GET A LIFE!!!!!! let us have some fun i mean think about it silencere duh geez. lay off relax.

On 03 April 2005 (03:25 AM),
pocket bike lover said:

i think pocket bikes are mad and if u think they are 2 noisy u dont have 2 ban them put silencers on them. why the hell sould u haters care about our safety GET A LIFE!!!!!! let us have some fun i mean, think about it, silencers duh, geez. lay off, relax.

On 03 April 2005 (07:14 PM),
wizzer said:

I just got a pocket bike 2 weeks ago and the cops already caught me but they said that its cool and they got my back if any1 is bitchen off about the noise,….. lol Fuck u all who hate pocket bikes also.. im 13 and i dont got shit to do so i can just go ride my pocket bike and dirtbike when i want to.. U c what im tryin to say all u fuckin gay asses who dont like them?

On 03 April 2005 (07:19 PM),
wizzer said:

I live in colorado and anything here under 49cc is legal to ride where ever the fuck u want to!!!!!!!!!!!So come move here if its so fuckin bad in cali
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GOT IT?

On 06 April 2005 (05:11 PM),
josh said:

WOW! why are you all so uppset about the pocket bikes they are not that loud. you dont get mad about loud cars with loud mufferlers and music coming past your house at sometimes midnite and even later but you get all pissed off about a little buzz go by during the day and the sound doesent even last long i promise you if you wer to ride one of these bikes you would want one TRUST ME the first time i rode one i absolutely loved it and allmost all my friends have them i personaly think that they should have to wher a helmet that is verry important. and wut is the deal with you guys thinking they go to fast on my foot pettaled bikes i can got up to speeds of 25 miles per hour that is all most as fast as a pocket bike. the poeple are allways complaning that we should go out side and that all we do is play games! now that we do find somthing fun that guys and even girls like and we use the bike out side now they say that we shouldent be out side rideing bikes so wut are we suposed to do out side if we illegalize these bikes and it is also a motivation tool you can use it to help your children dont do there work or if they dont listen to you and it also teaches you chiled reasponsibility it teaches them to save there money, DONT BYE THE BIKES FOR YOUR CHILDREN!if they want it they need to bye it there self. if you dont want your child going so fast than get a governer for the bike!!!!!!! my child is saving for a bike. he also loves these bikes. when do your children get the chance to ride a motor bike?? does you child want a bike when he or she gets old enought? then they need to no how to ride a motor bike so they can get to understand the controles and dangers of a bike like what it can and cant do. so i think that every one needs to calm down about the whole pocket bike thing. what is the piont of living without some fun. and please understand you only live once and you mite as well live it up.please just let your kids have a little fun before they are to old. thanks for reading thoughts about the pocket bike. SEE YALL! PEECE.

On 06 April 2005 (07:16 PM),
J.D. said:

I’ve left this thread lie fallow for a long, long time, but I think a point of clarification is necessary. And I’ll put it in bold for emphasis:

Nobody’s really complaining just because pocket bikes are loud. No, that’s not it at all. You’re all right: some cars are loud, too. No, the real complaint is that pocket bikes are loud continuously as they putter up-and-down the street over and over and over again.

A loud car passes through the neighborhood and is gone. Most pocket biker riders cruise up and down the same streets over-and-over again, so that the noise is there continuously. That’s the problem.

Does that make more sense?

On 07 April 2005 (02:15 PM),
Josh P. said:

i have a pocket bike and go-kart and the cops have came to me twice. they really only had to come becouse somewone complained. for all who do complain why. if you dont like it then tell the rider/owner when it would be ok to ride it or if they want a siclencer on it or somthin. its just a bunch of kids trying to have fun. i bet when you were a kid you did somthin that somewone else diddent like. comon people. you all who caller the cops are the kind of people who sit in their house and dont do anything. but if somewone does somthin to have fun and you want to do the same thein or are jelous or dont like the kid or somthin you ge mad and call the police. lighten up people.

oh for all the pocket bike riders you all can ride it on your driveway and yard so just annoy them that way.

On 15 April 2005 (12:53 PM),
LA Rider said:

Hell on wheels: pocketbikes face new regs in LA
http://www.server213.com/News/041405_pocket_bikes.html

On 19 April 2005 (10:13 PM),
J.M said:

i dont realy get what the big deal is with pocket bikes if ur care full dont drive up one streen over and over again then it should b okay i can understand people getting anoyyed if they kept goin up and down the same street,but if u dont like it just go talk to them 99% of the time they will stop or go somewere else i dont get y old, or stuck up people run others peoples honest fun ps. GET OVER THE LITTLE BUZZ ITS NOT GOIN TO KILL U!

On 24 April 2005 (04:46 PM),
que said:

corny.

On 28 April 2005 (08:03 PM),
offhahead said:

i have a 50cc scooter the cops see me and try to run me over it is shit. yeah i ride hard but im careful my scooter goes 50 kms and ive done more modifications it goes faster the cops now i have to sell it i want 250 4 it give me a call 0422757196

On 28 April 2005 (08:03 PM),
offhahead said:

i have a 50cc scooter the cops see me and try to run me over it is shit. yeah i ride hard but im careful my scooter goes 50 kms and ive done more modifications it goes faster the cops now i have to sell it i want 250 4 it give me a call 0422757196

On 05 May 2005 (07:04 AM),
offhahead said:

hay pocket rider your pretty cool you no wat to say i like u ive still got my 50 cc scooter. what can i do to get it going plz help me 3 day ago it was mby brithday my mum said take it out 4 a spine so i did i was racing a a water cooled pocket bike when i gave it to it i killed him i stop and the cops were after me i turned in to a mates house lucky i need your help i wear all the safety gear now i need the power plz help me pocket rider thanks brendon

On 05 May 2005 (07:04 AM),
offhahead said:

hay pocket rider your pretty cool you no wat to say i like u ive still got my 50 cc scooter. what can i do to get it going plz help me 3 day ago it was mby brithday my mum said take it out 4 a spine so i did i was racing a a water cooled pocket bike when i gave it to it i killed him i stop and the cops were after me i turned in to a mates house lucky i need your help i wear all the safety gear now i need the power plz help me pocket rider thanks brendon

On 05 May 2005 (07:04 AM),
offhahead said:

hay pocket rider your pretty cool you no wat to say i like u ive still got my 50 cc scooter. what can i do to get it going plz help me 3 day ago it was mby brithday my mum said take it out 4 a spine so i did i was racing a a water cooled pocket bike when i gave it to it i killed him i stop and the cops were after me i turned in to a mates house lucky i need your help i wear all the safety gear now i need the power plz help me pocket rider thanks brendon

On 14 May 2005 (07:57 AM),
s d said:

okay heres the deal whats the problem of having a little fun on our streets im mean cmon its just a little motorized bike that cant realy go that fast any ways.i mean every body has one look around and do they realy look so dangerous and also if its to loud they can just get a silencer on there pocket it cost like 30 bucks and after its on the pocket bike will sound a little louder than an electric pocket bike so just let the kids have alittle fun on neibor hood streets

On 22 May 2005 (11:03 AM),
gskthunder said:

omg all i see in here are a bunch of whiners. i am a 31 year old male, i have a pocket rock bike and it’s fun to ride, and i also have a moped, BTW mopeds are not loud as some of you complianed about. we all have a kid in us, weather you want it to show or not, let that kid inside of you come out and take a mpoed for a ride. i live in fort worth texas. our mpoed is regs. as the law wants, the mini pocket rocket i am going to get info on it to see if i have to reg. that also. mopeds and scooters are street legal, the pocket rocket i have isnt though, top speed is only 25mph my moped is 30mph. as far as noise goes, yes the pocket rocks are a bit noisey, and mopeds and scooters are not loud, think how loud a harley is……hummmm think about that, they are louder than most pocket rockets, and most mopeds and scooter (not the little scooters you stand up on) are quiter than lawn mowers. i have a 3 year old son and a 12 year old step son, my 3 year old has a 1hp hot wheels gas powered go kart, he loves it, think back when you were a kid riding your go kart or a friends go kart, how fun that was, well that is how much fun i have at 31 years old on a pocket rocket. my wife, step son and i take turns ride it, in a empty parking lot. but as far as the moped i drive that thing everywhere. so stop whining about the pocket rockets, there not that bad, there fun. LET THE KIDS BE KIDS and yes part is the parents fault for not showing them the correct way to ride them, and they dont go over the laws with there kids on these things. our family knows the law. and they are not spoiled because they have these fun toys. how many of you bought a PS2 or an XBOX for your kid(s)? think about how much that cost you, well i can tell you it cost just as much as a moped,scooter, and a pocket rocket, so dont say these kids are spoiled that have these things you spent the same amount of $$$$ on a video game. oh and by the way i work on these things for the kids and parents in my neighborhood so :P when you see or hear one coming do the road, think back when you were a kid. i will say there should be a cut off time for riding them if in a parking lot near houses. if you have a problem with these things be a man or a grown woman and go to the kids house and talk to the parents and info them about the law. ok well i will stop writing now i have to go get gas for these things. P.S all you pocket rocket and moped/scooter riders RIDE ON AND HAVE FUN, OBEY THE LAWS IN YOUR AREA.

On 08 June 2005 (03:26 PM),
Dude said:

Pocket Bikes should be legal,there fun hott and a load of fun…soo if us teens want to ride um..then let us ..who cares about the dangers?

On 08 June 2005 (03:26 PM),
Dude said:

Pocket Bikes should be legal,there fun hott and a load of fun…soo if us teens want to ride um..then let us ..who cares about the dangers?

On 17 June 2005 (03:56 PM),
James said:

Fuck all of you niggers that hate pocketbikes.Fuckin faggot ass bitches

On 27 June 2005 (07:45 PM),
cameron dillard said:

i would like to see pictures of a pocket bike , i bet people would actually buy your stuff if you had pictures i really want a pocket bike i am 15 years ,old and i bust my butt every day so i can save up to buy one and i heard your site was pretty good

On 27 June 2005 (07:45 PM),
cameron dillard said:

i would like to see pictures of a pocket bike , i bet people would actually buy your stuff if you had pictures i really want a pocket bike i am 15 years ,old and i bust my butt every day so i can save up to buy one and i heard your site was pretty good

On 13 July 2005 (05:45 PM),
Doach Choad said:

Hey queers.If you see any of us pocket bike riders and we fall and eat shit(which we won’t) just go ahead and laugh.It will make you feel better because if all you do is bitch about us riding them than just laugh when you see one crash.Don’t worry about it.Fuck you.Nigger.Dick sucking fat mother fucker who takes it up the ass.Well have a nice day people!Thomas Chadd sucks bick dick!!!!!!!!!

On 24 July 2005 (10:59 AM),
english kid said:

Pocket Bikes in america are slow, me and my friend here have a blata origami watercooled minimoto, and they do 70-80mph, and only 50cc they are not road legal here, and we dont know where too ride them so we just go too a carpark after the supermarket is closed

On 31 July 2005 (10:14 AM),
NFSGamerUSA said:

Apparently most of you think pocket bike riders are all idiots, who don’t care about the rules of the road, who don’t wear any safety gear, carry their friends or “little brother or sister” along in the middle of the night and puposely annoy people. NOT ALL RIDERS ARE LIKE THAT!! I have a pocket bike, I stop at stop signs, wear a DOT APPROVED HELMET, ride only in daylight, as they are already hard enough to see, riding at night doesn’t help, I’m don’t carry ANYONE on my bike, and I don’t bug people out of their minds. If you think pocket bikes are loud, what about all of the weed eaters and lawn mowers people use, why don’t you call the police and complain about them being loud, as they’re not any quieter than pocket bikes. I know, the reason you don’t call the police on them is because it wouldn’t being ruining kid’s fun, it would just cause someone to have a half-cut lawn.

On 31 July 2005 (03:49 PM),
** said:

I agree with NFSGamerUSA.

…-english kid, dont lie they are slow here in america, but dont exagerate-blata-they dont go 70-80mph they go about 45-55 freekin liar

On 31 July 2005 (03:49 PM),
** said:

I agree with NFSGamerUSA.

…-english kid, dont lie they are slow here in america, but dont exagerate-blata-they dont go 70-80mph they go about 45-55 freekin liar

On 31 July 2005 (03:49 PM),
** said:

I agree with NFSGamerUSA.

…-english kid, dont lie they are slow here in america, but dont exagerate-blata-they dont go 70-80mph they go about 45-55 freekin liar

On 02 August 2005 (08:30 PM),
PocketDude said:

Does any one no if pocket bikes are legal in virginia cuz im 12 and gettin one

On 02 August 2005 (10:06 PM),
PocketDude said:

i dont htink u shuld have 2 be 16 cuz im 12 and i can ride my 60mph x12 pretty responsibly and none of my neighbors get pissed off at me they actually wanna ride it! i think pocket bikes should be leggalized that would be be so fun. o yeah and all u faggets bitchin ur probaaly just some 80yr fuck that just was ass fucked and stays in ur house all day, ur probaaly all fat cuz u never go out! thats wuts wrong with some of u guys u dont wanna live life on the edge ur just pussies! u never go out and ur the kinda nieghbors that call the cops and ruin the fun!

On 02 August 2005 (10:06 PM),
PocketDude said:

i dont htink u shuld have 2 be 16 cuz im 12 and i can ride my 60mph x12 pretty responsibly and none of my neighbors get pissed off at me they actually wanna ride it! i think pocket bikes should be leggalized that would be be so fun. o yeah and all u faggets bitchin ur probaaly just some 80yr fuck that just was ass fucked and stays in ur house all day, ur probaaly all fat cuz u never go out! thats wuts wrong with some of u guys u dont wanna live life on the edge ur just pussies! u never go out and ur the kinda nieghbors that call the cops and ruin the fun!

On 05 August 2005 (01:03 PM),
Ian said:

Adults think we don’t know pocket rockets aren’t street legal and just because when they had mini bikes they were stupid and rode them in the street and got hit doesn’t mean we’re going to,and yes they did have them back then.
O’yeah um,”PocketDude” next time your “making a point” at least spell faggot right. But I say lift the ban off of California!

On 05 August 2005 (01:03 PM),
Ian said:

Adults think we don’t know pocket rockets aren’t street legal and just because when they had mini bikes they were stupid and rode them in the street and got hit doesn’t mean we’re going to,and yes they did have them back then.
O’yeah um,”PocketDude” next time your “making a point” at least spell faggot right. But I say lift the ban off of California!

On 05 August 2005 (01:04 PM),
Ian said:

Adults think we don’t know pocket rockets aren’t street legal and just because when they had mini bikes they were stupid and rode them in the street and got hit doesn’t mean we’re going to,and yes they did have them back then.
O’yeah um,”PocketDude” next time your “making a point” at least spell faggot right. But I say lift the ban off of California!

On 06 August 2005 (04:50 PM),
123456789 said:

pocketbike dude: x12 do not go 60mph tops is 40mph: dont bullshit little kid!

On 06 August 2005 (04:51 PM),
123456789 said:

pocketbike dude: x12 do not go 60mph tops is 40mph: dont bullshit little kid!

On 21 August 2005 (01:49 PM),
pocket bike fan said:

I think that pocket bikes should be aloud. My friend has one and the neighbors think its cool not annoying.

On 21 August 2005 (06:51 PM),
NFSGamerUSA said:

**, you seem to be the only one that much about pocketbikes, have you ever been to pocketbikeplanet.com? If you haven’t, you ought to visit there because they offer lots of help on pocket bikes, same for everyone else reading this thread. It’s a great place to get into pocket biking at!

On 21 August 2005 (06:51 PM),
NFSGamerUSA said:

**, you seem to be the only one that much about pocketbikes, have you ever been to pocketbikeplanet.com? If you haven’t, you ought to visit there because they offer lots of help on pocket bikes, same for everyone else reading this thread. It’s a great place to get into pocket biking at!

On 21 August 2005 (06:52 PM),
NFSGamerUSA said:

**, you seem to be the only one that much about pocketbikes, have you ever been to pocketbikeplanet.com? If you haven’t, you ought to visit there because they offer lots of help on pocket bikes, same for everyone else reading this thread. It’s a great place to get into pocket biking at!

On 28 August 2005 (05:35 PM),
rossinirider said:

actualy the X12 goes 60 mph if its 110 cc if its 49 it goes like 25 mph

On 30 August 2005 (01:19 PM),
NFSGamerUSA said:

No, 110cc X12s only go maybe a little over 40, I assure you they do not go 60. The stock speedometers on ANY Chinese pocketbikes are so innacurate it makes a 3 year old look good at math.

On 30 August 2005 (01:19 PM),
NFSGamerUSA said:

No, 110cc X12s only go maybe a little over 40, I assure you they do not go 60. The stock speedometers on ANY Chinese pocketbikes are so innacurate it makes a 3 year old look good at math.

On 07 September 2005 (06:55 PM),
pocket winner said:

anyone know the laws of a pb in colorado cuz ive got one & my mom wont let me ride it til i know it wont get taken away

P.S. Fuck you anti pocket bikeists yall dont even know how good it feels to ride them and yet you criticise us for enjoying life a little bit dammit

On 08 September 2005 (03:15 PM),
NFSGamerUSA said:

pocket winner, I don’t know if it is or not, but most everywhere it is. If I were you, just ride it until a police man stops you or says that that’s illegal, just say, “I didn’t know it was illegal to ride on the street, sir, I’m sorry. I won’t ride it the street again. Thank you for notifying me (Unless he isn’t nice and doesn’t let you off with a warning or even a ticket, but instead takes it away).” Also, don’t be so rude to people who don’t like pocket bikers being on the street. Cussing them out only makes pocket bikers look worse and more hated all around the country, think before you say things.

On 17 September 2005 (11:35 PM),
MJ said:

what has gone wrong with america what is wrong with you people. i may as well move to a another communist country because this one is getting weirder and expensive. we all cant do anything without somebody or a nasi cop dipping into our personal business. my grandfather and father died for this country, why to see it turn into a sociaiist nation. what a bunch of weak uptight rude self centered people we have become. where is joe mccarthy when you need him. there are 19000 murders in the usa and the cops are worried about pocket bikes!!!!!
maybe if the hoodlums could have a cheap thrill on a pocket bike or whatever it would give them something else to do.

On 18 September 2005 (01:16 AM),
pocket racer champion said:

I think pocket bikes should be allowed on public roads. they may be dangerous but accisents happen every day and police should be doing more important things instead of confiscating peoples pocket bikes. they are is powerful as scooters and can be customised to be just as noisy. We should just be atleast to ride them in the bike lane or the footpaths or at the minnium at public parks

On 20 September 2005 (08:00 PM),
NFSGamerUSA said:

Well, I think they should be legal, but people in cars usually can’t see them, especially the really small ones, like mine. I think there should be a drivers permit for small enigned vehicles, such as pocket bikes, that you could aquire at 13 or 14. I know here in Alabama you can get a motorcycle permit at age 14 (I wish I had a real motorcycle; I’m 14), and if you put a tall zip flag on your bike you’d be a lot more visable. It’s just that all of these dumb kids get on them and run stop signs and lights and hit and get hit by cars.

On 20 September 2005 (08:00 PM),
NFSGamerUSA said:

Well, I think they should be legal, but people in cars usually can’t see them, especially the really small ones, like mine. I think there should be a drivers permit for small enigned vehicles, such as pocket bikes, that you could aquire at 13 or 14. I know here in Alabama you can get a motorcycle permit at age 14 (I wish I had a real motorcycle; I’m 14), and if you put a tall zip flag on your bike you’d be a lot more visable. It’s just that all of these dumb kids get on them and run stop signs and lights and hit and get hit by cars.

On 20 September 2005 (08:00 PM),
NFSGamerUSA said:

Well, I think they should be legal, but people in cars usually can’t see them, especially the really small ones, like mine. I think there should be a drivers permit for small enigned vehicles, such as pocket bikes, that you could aquire at 13 or 14. I know here in Alabama you can get a motorcycle permit at age 14 (I wish I had a real motorcycle; I’m 14), and if you put a tall zip flag on your bike you’d be a lot more visable. It’s just that all of these dumb kids get on them and run stop signs and lights and hit and get hit by cars.

Action Girl’s Guide to Living

The final writing class of the term was last night. I haven’t mentioned the writing class in several weeks because I haven’t gone; buying a new house has kept me busy.

I’m sad to have missed so many sessions. The instructor, Rick, is quite good, and I always came away from Wednesday night inspired, motivated to write. I want to create something.

Last night, Rick shared various bits of wisdom he’d gleaned from years of writing classes. While these may seem like platitudes, I think they each contain an important insight:

  1. Talent does not get you published; hard work and perseverance do. Perhaps this is obvious, but some of us it ought to be a mantra. You may be talented at something, but that talent is meaningless if you don’t use it.
  2. Self-loathing is far better than cowardice. This, of course, is just a re-wording of the old “better to have lost in love than never to have loved at all”, or the similar “shoot for the stars”. Basically, the idea is that if you try and fail, you’ve still done more than by not trying at all. Take a chance!
  3. Observe the world around you. This is especially important for writers, of course. Pay attention to the actions and conversations of the people you encounter. Observe what happens in the natural world. Learning to notice details makes life richer.
  4. Live life with an insatiable curiosity. Ah, yes. This one I’m good at. Never stop learning!

Rick’s rules reminded me of Action Girl’s Guide to Living.

I first discovered Action Girl when Dana mentioned her during our superhero discussion several weeks ago. Action Girl, created by Sarah Dyer, isn’t a superhero in the traditional sense of the word. She has her own comic book, sure, but her main super power is the ability to help people take charge of their own lives. Dyer has a personal agenda, and she’s pleased to share it with the world.

Here is an abridged version of Action Girl’s Guide to Living (follow the link for Dyer’s extended version).

  1. Action is everything! It really doesn’t matter what you say or even what you think; it’s what you do that matters. Be less of a consumer and more of a creator. Write. Sew. Cook dinner. Put on a play. Publish a magazine. Make a web site. Don’t just buy stuff: make it!
  2. Support other’s actions. Support what other people are doing; spend your time and money on things done for something other than profit. This doesn’t mean you can’t buy the new U2 album, just try to buy things on smaller labels, too.
  3. Have a code of ethics. It doesn’t matter what your code of ethics is — everyone’s is different — what’s important is to have an articulated set of rules you follow. You can change your mind as you go along — what works for you now might not work in ten years — but you should know what it is you stand for now.
  4. Don’t be a hypocrite. Once you’ve developed a code of ethics, live by it. Consider your actions and how they relate to your standards. Don’t make compromises. For example, if you believe that it’s wrong to eat meat because it exploits animals, then don’t wear leather, and don’t use products tested on animals. Be consistent.
  5. Be positive. Life is short. Don’t wast time bitching about others. If you can do something about it, do it. Otherwise, get on with life and forget it. Re-route your negative energy in a positive direction. If you hate something, fine, but don’t make it your career.
  6. Be open-minded. Read books and magazines and newspapers and web sites. (And not just the ones you already agree with or like.) Listen to other people’s opinions. You don’t have to welcome every new idea with open arms; just be willing to change and grow.
  7. Forget the “scene”. Discard the idea that a thing has to be underground to be legitimate. Or that something popular is necessarily bad. Good work is good work, no matter the forum, no matter how broad its appeal.
  8. Most things suck. Become more discriminating. Pursue quality. Don’t waste your time with the mundane. You’ll have more time to do something fun!
  9. Be adventurous. Try new things. Eat new food. Learn a new skill. Travel. Watch foreign films. Change your hairstyle. You might not enjoy everything you try, but then you might find something you really love.
  10. Live life. Never stop buying toys. Write letters to complain about things you don’t like. Make your own clothes. Do stupid tourist things with your friends. Never pay for a haircut if you can help it — that’s why you have friends. Learn to cook more than just spaghettios. Don’t hurt other people. Start a collection of something you like. Make elaborate valentines for your friends. Don’t be so serious. Learn to do more things and feel more competent. Don’t be afraid of technology. Don’t worry about what other people think. Have fun!

Dyer has distilled these rules into a succinct “Action Girl Manifesto”:

ACTION IS EVERYTHING! Our society, even when it’s trying to be “alternative” usually just promotes a consumerist mentality. Buying things isn’t evil, but if that’s all you do, your life is pretty pointless. Be an ACTION GIRL! (Or boy!) It’s great to read / listen to / watch other people’s creative output, but it’s even cooler to do it yourself. Don’t think you could play in a band? Try anyway! Or maybe think about putting on shows or starting a label. Don’t have time/energy to do a zine yourself? Contribute to someone else’s zine. Not everyone is suited to doing projects on their own, but everyone has something to contribute. So do something with all that positive energy!

It’s a great philosophy, one I endorse wholeheartedly (though I may not always practice it myself).

I have a couple of additions:

  1. Ask for it. You’ll never get it if you don’t ask. And you might be surprised at what you can get just by asking.
  2. Don’t sweat the small stuff. Who cares if your shirt isn’t ironed? If you forgot to mail the phone bill? If you can’t remember someone’s name? Take it easy. It’s not that important.

What’s the gist of all these rules? Do something! Don’t just sit there; get up and live!

Don’t watch a movie on television; go make one yourself. Don’t write a book; go write your own. Don’t buy dinner from a restaurant; cook it yourself. Don’t shop for new clothes; sew your own. Don’t drive to the store; walk, or ride your bike.

Be creative! Build things!

Discover new foods and friends and books and movies. Don’t be stuck in a rut.

Lighten up. Relax. Don’t be so critical of others. Instead, support what they do. Enjoy life.

These rules are important because our modern society programs us to operate like mind-numbed robots, driving everywhere, buying pre-packaged everything, consuming mass media. I’m just as guilty as the next person, but I want to change.

And that’s why I’m happy that over the past six months I’ve begun to write fiction. That, if only occasionally, I ride my bike around town for errands. That we’re buying an old house that will require personal care and attention.

I want to be an Action Girl. Er, Action Boy.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go eat breakfast. I’m going to have some of “Rick’s Precious Granola”, cereal my writing instructor made himself.

Comments


On 10 June 2004 (09:22 AM),
Johnny said:

Ask for it. You’ll never get it if you don’t ask. And you might be surprised at what you can get just by asking.

I am asking for everyone to send me a million dollars and join my cult, er, I mean my new religion. I have asked for this in the past, but this time I really, really mean it. If you have to choose between one of the two about things, please just send the cash. Thanks in advance.

PS. Just so you know, I need the cash because I’m going to meet the President of Nigeria. His assistant undersecretary sent me an email asking for my help in getting back a bunch of cash that apparently the evil former regime had socked away in a Swiss bank account. Once they transfer it to my bank account I can help them out, but I need lots of cash first in order to get the wire transfer authorized. So it’s obviously for a worthy cause. It’s not like it’s just going to lie my own pockets. I mean, line my own pockets.

On 10 June 2004 (09:41 AM),
Denise said:

Johnny, you’ve tried this cult thing before, haven’t you? Do you think you’ll have better success this time?

I love this post, J.D.

On 10 June 2004 (10:00 AM),
Johnny said:

“Action is everything”. I’m sure it wasn’t the success I wanted because people just forgot about it. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

On 10 June 2004 (10:10 AM),
Betsy said:

Great post, J.D.

Especially the ‘ask’ part. I hate asking people for stuff, or help.

It took the death of someone I am close to in order to jolt me out of my ‘I cannot possibly ask’ mode – but last week, I started asking. And people started responding. No one even thought twice about it, and people were glad to be able to do something, anything.

We all felt better afterwards, I am sure.

On 10 June 2004 (10:20 AM),
Virginia said:

I’m reminded of the saying,

He who whispers down a well,
About the things he has to sell.
Does not make the shinning dollars,
As he who climbs a tree and hollers.

On 10 June 2004 (10:43 AM),
Anthony said:

These rules are important because our modern society programs us to operate like mind-numbed robots, driving everywhere, buying pre-packaged everything, consuming mass media. I’m just as guilty as the next person, but I want to change.

Well put.

Action is everything! It really doesn’t matter what you say or even what you think; it’s what you do that matters.

I wouldn’t put it quite like that, but the point made is important. If you really believe in something, you will act it out in real time, so it is our actions, not our ideas, that faithfully reflect who we really are.

While I certainly do not agree that “it doesn’t matter what your code of ethics is,” I do think every person should be consistent with the code they choose. I continually try to maintain consistency in my own life, and I congratulate you, JD, in striving to escape the mindless herd and build your life around your ideals. Only people who think and do for themselves are free.

On 10 June 2004 (02:42 PM),
J.D. said:

Who knew? Benjamin Franklin was the Action Girl of the 18th century, though some of his advice seems dated now. Here are Franklin’s Goals of Virtue (via makeoutcity.com):

  • Temperance: Eat not to dullness; drink not to elevation.
  • Silence: Speak not but what may benefit others or yourself; avoid trifling conversation.
  • Order: Let all your things have their places; let each part of your business have its time.
  • Resolution: Resolve to perform what you ought; perform without fail what you resolve.
  • Frugality: Make no expense but to do good to others or yourself; that is, waste nothing.
  • Industry: Lose no time; be always employed in something useful; cut off all unnecessary actions.
  • Sincerity: Use no hurtful deceit; think innocently and justly; speak accordingly.
  • Justice: Wrong none by doing injuries; or omitting the benefits that are your duty.
  • Moderation: Avoid extremes; forebear resenting injuries so much as you think deserve.
  • Cleanliness: Tolerate no uncleanliness in body, clothes, or habitation.
  • Tranquility: Be not disturbed at trifles or at accidents common or unavoidable.
  • Chastity: Rarely use venery but for health or offspring, never to dullness, weakness, or the injury of your own or another’s peace or reputation.
  • Humility: Imitate Jesus and Socrates.

I wonder what other good advice I can find on the net…

On 10 June 2004 (04:46 PM),
Hmm… said:

Ask for it. You’ll never get it if you don’t ask. And you might be surprised at what you can get just by asking.

Can you buy these for me?

On 10 June 2004 (04:58 PM),
Johnny said:

Well Nick, if you don’t tell us who you are how will we know where to have them delivered?

On 10 June 2004 (05:06 PM),
Nick said:

Hmm…good point.

I Am Interviewed By Toto The Cat

Toto: So let’s talk about the food situation.
J.D.: What food situation?
T: I’m hungry.
J: I just fed you.
T: Right. You fed me one-third of a cup of special diet food meant for my grey brother. I HATE YOU.
J: Wait — I feed you that three times a day. The vet says that’s all you need.
T: Right. The vet sticks a thermometer up my ass, too. I hate him. Like I believe a word he says. You used to feed me a cup of dry food — that delicious Friskies seafood flavor — and a quarter can of Friskies wet food. TWICE A DAY. Is this ringing any bells?
J: Yes, but…
T: I HATE YOU. Oh, how I long to eat ocean white fish with tuna again.
J: You haven’t been throwing up as much lately, have you?
T: Come again?
J: Since we changed to the new food, you’ve stopped throwing up after eating. That was gross.
T: LIES! I never did that.
J: Yes you did. Every night I’d hear your huck huck huck squish as you vomited your food. I used to step in it in the morning. That was gross.
T: Er, I was just pre-digesting. I liked to save it for later.
J: It was gross.
T: Moving on. So, what’s with all the boxes around the house? And what’s happened to all the scratching posts? And why isn’t anything where it used to be. Last night I went to pull books off the bookshelf and there weren’t any there. You? In a house without books? Something’s up…
J: We’re moving.
T: What?
J: We’re moving to a new house. All those boxes you see are filled with books. Nearly fifty boxes filled with books. Remember when we moved before? It was ten years ago — you were just a kitten. We had just brought you home to the apartment. Then we moved. You and Tintin spent the better part of a day huddled together, hiding in the bottom of the bathroom cabinet.
T: LIES! I have always lived here. And I’ve never hidden from anything.
J: Except the vacuum cleaner. And bananas.
T: What!?
J: Nothing.
T: Will there be more food at this new house?
J: Well, no. Just lots of roses and trees and birds and —
T: Birds!? Birds are food!
J: Uh…

T: How exactly are we going to get to the new house?
J: Well, we’ll probably put you in a cat carrier and drive you —
T: Unfair to cats! Unfair to cats!
J: Calm down. Do you want to walk the whole way?
T: I don’t want to move at all. Why don’t you just leave me here. Next on the agenda: what’s with locking me away at night lately?
J: You keep growling at Nemo.
T: Who’s Nemo?
J: Your little brother.
T: Oh, the little cat. Right. I hate him.
J: Yes, well, when you growl at him all night long, we can’t sleep. Last night you woke me from the middle of a dream.
T: Do tell. What were you dreaming about? Food?
J: No. Uh…I dreamt that I was Simon, and that I was in a fight with a chicken, and that I was losing that fight.
T: HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. You are so stupid.
J: I could lock you away right now, you know.
T: I HATE YOU.
J: You hate everybody.
T: That’s not true. I like mom. And Auntie Tiff. And Auntie Aimee.
J: Oh. I see.
T: I only hate you. And Auntie Pam. Let’s talk about the little cat. Why does he have to be here? Here’s an idea to stop the growling: instead of locking me up at night, why not get rid of the little cat? I’ll help.
J: We like Nemo.

T: He looks like a monkey.
J: Well, that’s true. But he’s affectionate, and playful, and talkative.
T: I’m all of those things.
J: Well, sort of, but you’re mean, too. And besides, you should just give him a chance. You used to growl at Simon all the time, too, until Nemo came along. Now you get along fine with Simon and you growl at Nemo. Nemo’s not that bad. He’d love to play with you if you’d let him.
T: Yes, I’ll play with him. IN THE STREET.
J: Be nice.
T: Or maybe he’d like to play in the microwave. How about this? I was talking with Boss Spurge [ed.: the neighbor cat, the head cat in the neighborhood] the other day. He tells me that I’m named after a dog.
J: Yes, that’s true.
T: I HATE YOU.
J: Well, Ididn’t name you. Your beloved Auntie Tiff gave you that name.
T: LIES.
J: It’s true! Tintin was sort of named for a dog, too.
T: Tintin?
J: Your white brother.

T: Whatever happened to him, anyway?
J: Tintin?
T: My white brother.
J: Er, he was old. He got diabetes and died.
T: He what?
J: Died.
T: I don’t understand.
J: Never mind. Anyhow, he was named for a dog, too. Sort of. We actually wanted to call him Snowy, which is the name of a comic strip dog. But your mom and I thought Snowy was a stupid name, so we called him Tintin instead. Which is the name of Snowy’s master.
T: Master?
J: Er, his dad.
T: Careful with the speciesist talk…
J: Sorry.
T: Let’s talk about the food situation.

Comments

On 08 June 2004 (04:02 PM),
Joel said:

You were right, this is hilarious.

On 08 June 2004 (09:22 PM),
Betsy said:

I’m not the biggest cat fan in the world – but I LOVED this!

On 08 June 2004 (10:24 PM),
tammy said:

I tooo hate cats but I have to admit that was quite entertaining. Jd, have you ever counted all your books? Do you have any idea how many you have? And do you remember I still have she’s Come Undone? I loved it. Help me remmember to give it to you nect time I see you.

On 08 June 2004 (10:35 PM),
Schmela said:

Cats have such spectacular personalities. Here is a photo of our hissy but lovable cat. She would like to talk strategy with Toto on the food issue. She has similar complaints.

On 09 June 2004 (06:28 AM),
Anthony said:

That’s a good story. And it certainly captures the essence of a cat’s personality. I really doubt the motives of even affectionate cats. I think they are just better at the art of manipulation.

On 09 June 2004 (07:00 AM),
Amanda said:

Best. entry. ever. More cat posts!

On 09 June 2004 (09:07 AM),
Courtney said:

Hilarious!!! Thanks for the laughs! :)

On 09 June 2004 (09:43 AM),
Auntie Pam said:

I agree with Toto – leave her at your current house!

On 09 June 2004 (10:40 AM),
Anthony said:

Yeh. Toto’s a jerk. But Nemo looks like he could grow up to be a monkey-faced manipulator. Be very careful.

On 09 June 2004 (11:49 AM),
Lynn said:

I had to move my cat a few times and she hated it. I did find that she adjusted better if I made sure to have my stuff (furniture,etc) in the new place when I brought her over. At least some of the things were familiar to her.

Once they get used to things, I’ll bet Toto and Nemo will have a blast exploring that house and yard!

On 10 June 2004 (09:22 AM),
Joel said:

Ah, I see now that the second picture features the dear departed Satchel in the background. Smart money says that Toto’s bird is actually Satchel’s catch.

On 10 June 2004 (11:03 AM),
Tiffany said:

Did I really name Toto? FunnY I had forgotten about that.

On 09 September 2005 (03:28 PM),
Martha said:

My curmudgeon black cat’s name is Murphy, and he looks just like Toto! He came with the house we bought. Four years later, we were going to move. A few days before my daughter and I moved across town, he hopped up in a chair as we sat at the dining table. I figured that was as good a time as any to formally announce that we were moving to an apartment house with lots of other inside/outside cats. He responded by disappearing for three days!